engine cutting out

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engine cutting out

h6mrv
Hi all, I need to tinker with my 03 1200 to see wjy it keeps cutting out. It did happen every once in a while but it cut out 3 times last time out on a warm summer evening. I'm suspecting the fuel tap diaphram, or the vac pipe to it, as I turn the fuel tap to prime and the engine soon fires up again. My question is, am I being fooled by this and could it be the ignition pick-up breaking down? I'm told that the pick up will cut out when hot and then work again when the engine cools, I restart my engine within a matter of minutes so the engine is still hot.
Thanks, sparky mark, Northants UK.
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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hiya, Replace the pick up first-it’s cheaper and easier than to start carb tinkering.

BOAT BBBB 96 Merlot

From: mailto:[hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 7:29 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] engine cutting out

 
Hi all, I need to tinker with my 03 1200 to see wjy it keeps cutting out. It
did happen every once in a while but it cut out 3 times last time out on a
warm summer evening. I'm suspecting the fuel tap diaphram, or the vac pipe
to it, as I turn the fuel tap to prime and the engine soon fires up again.
My question is, am I being fooled by this and could it be the ignition
pick-up breaking down? I'm told that the pick up will cut out when hot and
then work again when the engine cools, I restart my engine within a matter
of minutes so the engine is still hot.
Thanks, sparky mark, Northants UK.

--
View this message in context: http://triumph-trophy.10955.n7.nabble.com/engine-cutting-out-tp36746.html
Sent from the Triumph Trophy mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by h6mrv
Hi Sparky,  We need more information about how it cuts out. If it's a fuel issue one carb runs out of fuel first and then the other carbs start hitting empty. So from the first to the last carb to empty it might take 4 or 5 seconds depending on how even the float levels are.
 If it is a crankshaft position sensor that is going bad, it all happens much quicker. It is just like flicking a light switch, maybe it will cough once. Turning the petcock to prime doesn't work, it still won't start. It needs time to cool down. Maybe after 5 or 10 minutes it will start, but be prepared for it to stop in a few miles because it will happen again and again. When I owned my brother's '95 900 it stopped on me 3 times while going home. Each time, I got down the road about 4 more miles, then lights out and wait again.
 Turning the petcock to prime will over ride the vacuum hose to the petcock so if there is a vacuum leak or the hose is off, fuel is still being delivered into the carbs. However an off vacuum hose will affect how the engine runs.
 Most of us know how fragile the plastic petcock knob is. Did it really turn to prime or run or reserve? Maybe it just spins.
 Before spending the money on a crankshaft sensor, take the side panels off under the seat to get access to the petcock knob. Make sure the knob is intact  and working properly. Try sucking on the hose that powers the petcock diaphragm, it will hold a vaccum when the diaphragm is good.
 Hope this helps,
 Greg
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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Sparky;
     Only one thing to add to Gregs response regarding sucking on the
vacuum hose. I had a pin hole leak in my diaphragm and sucking on the
hose would open the fuel valve but it would close again almost
immediately. The diaphragm should STAY open after to suck it open. If
you can suck fuel through the vacuum tube you have a leak! HTH!
Ed J.

On 7/12/2015 11:12 AM, [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:

>
>
> Hi Sparky,
> We need more information about how it cuts out. If it's a fuel issue
> one carb runs out of fuel first and then the other carbs start hitting
> empty. So from the first to the last carb to empty it might take 4 or
> 5 seconds depending on how even the float levels are.
> If it is a crankshaft position sensor that is going bad, it all
> happens much quicker. It is just like flicking a light switch, maybe
> it will cough once. Turning the petcock to prime doesn't work, it
> still won't start. It needs time to cool down. Maybe after 5 or 10
> minutes it will start, but be prepared for it to stop in a few miles
> because it will happen again and again. When I owned my brother's '95
> 900 it stopped on me 3 times while going home. Each time, I got down
> the road about 4 more miles, then lights out and wait again.
> Turning the petcock to prime will over ride the vacuum hose to the
> petcock so if there is a vacuum leak or the hose is off, fuel is still
> being delivered into the carbs. However an off vacuum hose will affect
> how the engine runs.
> Most of us know how fragile the plastic petcock knob is. Did it really
> turn to prime or run or reserve? Maybe it just spins.
> Before spending the money on a crankshaft sensor, take the side panels
> off under the seat to get access to the petcock knob. Make sure the
> knob is intact  and working properly. Try sucking on the hose that
> powers the petcock diaphragm, it will hold a vaccum when the diaphragm
> is good.
> Hope this helps,
> Greg
>
>
>

--
Ed J.Indian Harbour Beach,FL
2001 Triumph Trophy 1200



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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by h6mrv
If fuel level was 1/4 tank or less and you were riding at highway speeds,
this could be the well-known tank venting problem.

Don
'97 900

----- Original Message -----
From: h6mrv sparky.mark[at]hotmail.co.uk [TriumphTrophy]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 1:29 AM
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] engine cutting out


I need to tinker with my 03 1200 to see wjy it keeps cutting out. It
did happen every once in a while but it cut out 3 times last time out on a
warm summer evening.

as I turn the fuel tap to prime and the engine soon fires up again.


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Re: engine cutting out

h6mrv
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Thanks for the responses, it does seem like it splutters for a minute or so before finally cutting out. I've opened the fuel cap as soon as I've stopped the bike and there's no sucking noise as if there would be a tank venting issue. I'm going to remove the tank tomorrow and check the vacuum line and the diaphragm first as it doesn't seem likely that it's the ignition pick up, thanks to the advice here. The other possibility, I guess, is the mesh filter inside the tank itself.
I'll post my findings when I get to the bottom of it, thanks for the advice, this forum is brilliant and long may it continue :-}
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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
I wouldn't rule out a venting problem on the basis of this test. I tried the
test a few times and by the time I had stopped, moved the tank bag and
opened the cap, I think that enough air had made it in that I wouldn't have
heard a sound.

Like you, a minute or so of Prime helped.

Don
'97 900

----- Original Message -----
From: h6mrv sparky.mark[at]hotmail.co.uk [TriumphTrophy]
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 4:20 PM
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: engine cutting out


 I've opened the fuel cap as soon as I've stopped
the bike and there's no sucking noise as if there would be a tank venting
issue.

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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hey Sparky,

First off replace the crank sensor. Also cut and solder the two wires at
the alarm socket. Which is located next to the battery. Then see if the
problem still occurs.

Best,
Samuel
96 BBBB PB
New Orleans
On Jul 12, 2015 10:12 AM, "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Sparky,
> We need more information about how it cuts out. If it's a fuel issue one
> carb runs out of fuel first and then the other carbs start hitting empty.
> So from the first to the last carb to empty it might take 4 or 5 seconds
> depending on how even the float levels are.
> If it is a crankshaft position sensor that is going bad, it all happens
> much quicker. It is just like flicking a light switch, maybe it will cough
> once. Turning the petcock to prime doesn't work, it still won't start. It
> needs time to cool down. Maybe after 5 or 10 minutes it will start, but be
> prepared for it to stop in a few miles because it will happen again and
> again. When I owned my brother's '95 900 it stopped on me 3 times while
> going home. Each time, I got down the road about 4 more miles, then lights
> out and wait again.
> Turning the petcock to prime will over ride the vacuum hose to the petcock
> so if there is a vacuum leak or the hose is off, fuel is still being
> delivered into the carbs. However an off vacuum hose will affect how the
> engine runs.
> Most of us know how fragile the plastic petcock knob is. Did it really
> turn to prime or run or reserve? Maybe it just spins.
> Before spending the money on a crankshaft sensor, take the side panels off
> under the seat to get access to the petcock knob. Make sure the knob is
> intact  and working properly. Try sucking on the hose that powers the
> petcock diaphragm, it will hold a vaccum when the diaphragm is good.
> Hope this helps,
> Greg
>
>
>
>
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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by h6mrv
Hi Mark,
One thing that can cause a fuel delivery issue is if your fuel filters are clogged.  
On my bike, debris from the fuel tank can slip underneath the fuel sock when the selector is on RES or PRI because there is no positive seal between the bottom of the fuel sock and the fuel tap extension.  Eventually, this debris clogs up the fuel filters.
These filters are little cone-shaped screens that fit in the tees between carbs 1 and 2, and carbs 3 and 4.  If they get clogged, then your bike will lose power and cut out, at first, during sustained high-speed (highway) runs, and later during lower-speed riding.  
Turning the fuel tap to prime and letting the bike sit for a bit will will refill the carburetor bowls and allow you to continue for a short distance.
- Dave
 
      From: "h6mrv [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 2:29 AM
 Subject: [TriumphTrophy] engine cutting out
   
    Hi all, I need to tinker with my 03 1200 to see wjy it keeps cutting out. It
did happen every once in a while but it cut out 3 times last time out on a
warm summer evening. I'm suspecting the fuel tap diaphram, or the vac pipe
to it, as I turn the fuel tap to prime and the engine soon fires up again.
My question is, am I being fooled by this and could it be the ignition
pick-up breaking down? I'm told that the pick up will cut out when hot and
then work again when the engine cools, I restart my engine within a matter
of minutes so the engine is still hot.
Thanks, sparky mark, Northants UK.

--
View this message in context: http://triumph-trophy.10955.n7.nabble.com/engine-cutting-out-tp36746.html
Sent from the Triumph Trophy mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Sparky, Those inline filter are really small. The mesh in the petcock is similar to the mesh of the inline filter. So 10 years ago I figured why have both. I threw away the inline filters and no problems yet. The only problem I created was adding a clear inline filter spliced into the fuel line. Oops, the fuel didn't flow fast enough for 90 mph. Threw that one away also. The petcock filter doing the job just fine. Greg
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Re: engine cutting out

h6mrv
In reply to this post by h6mrv
Well sure enough I found nothing conclusive last night when I stripped the tank off and checked the fuel tank and cap venting. So I think I'll be replacing those filtered tee pieces next as they  could well be clogging up after 37,000 miles in 12 years. I'll try riding with the fuel cap open as well just to finally eliminate the venting issue (with the fuel load between 1/2 & 1/4 and on a long straight road to avoid heavy braking)
Thanks again, we're getting there, Sparky Mark.
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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Sparky,
There is no need to replace the fuel filters unless they're missing.  If they're filled with junk, you can just spray them out with WD-40 and put them back.  You can also choose to leave them out.  One of the PO's of my bike did exactly this.
The engineers put those filters there for a reason.

If they're filled with junk, that junk could have also lodged in your petcock and in your needles and seats and flooded your engine with gasoline.  This happened to me when junk got past the underside of the fuel sock while I was switched to RES on my way to a gas station.  My end result was that cylinder #2 filled with gasoline while parked and the engine hydro-locked.  I had to get a ride home, rent a trailer, tow the bike home, rebuild the fuel system and carburetors, change the oil, then strip and de-rust the inside of my tank. 
My bike is a 2002.  I don't know why my fuel sock allows grit underneath in the PRI and RES circuit while other bikes' fuel socks don't.  It might be differences caused by a mold that needed cleaning at the time my sock was cast. I might buy another fuel sock at some point, maybe if I ever need to replace my petcock.

If they're filled with junk, think carefully before leaving them out.  That junk came from somewhere and would otherwise go to your carburetors.  I currently have clear inline filters on my bike and like others on the list, I am not happy with them.  They are too large and require a long stretch of fuel line just to get back around to the tees that go to the carbs. The long fuel lines bask in too much heat and I've watched vapor bubbles passing through my fuel fliters from boiled gasoline.  I'm planning to replace the clear inline filters with stubs that hold an extra set of the little fuel filters between the carbs.  Even though these filters will clog just as fast, they should be much more accessible and they shouldn't cause fuel evaporation issues within the fuel lines like I'm seeing right now with longer fuel lines that are up near the cylinder head.
Dave
 
      From: "h6mrv [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 12:52 AM
 Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: engine cutting out
   
    Well sure enough I found nothing conclusive last night when I stripped the
tank off and checked the fuel tank and cap venting. So I think I'll be
replacing those filtered tee pieces next as they could well be clogging up
after 37,000 miles in 12 years. I'll try riding with the fuel cap open as
well just to finally eliminate the venting issue (with the fuel load between
1/2 & 1/4 and on a long straight road to avoid heavy braking)
Thanks again, we're getting there, Sparky Mark.

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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by h6mrv

   
Dave,  riding to the Dragon Raid?
Bob


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "David Webb [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
Date: 07/14/2015  7:23 PM  (GMT-06:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Re: engine cutting out


 



 


   
     
     
      Hi Sparky,
There is no need to replace the fuel filters unless they're missing.  If they're filled with junk, you can just spray them out with WD-40 and put them back.  You can also choose to leave them out.  One of the PO's of my bike did exactly this.
The engineers put those filters there for a reason.

If they're filled with junk, that junk could have also lodged in your petcock and in your needles and seats and flooded your engine with gasoline.  This happened to me when junk got past the underside of the fuel sock while I was switched to RES on my way to a gas station.  My end result was that cylinder #2 filled with gasoline while parked and the engine hydro-locked.  I had to get a ride home, rent a trailer, tow the bike home, rebuild the fuel system and carburetors, change the oil, then strip and de-rust the inside of my tank. 
My bike is a 2002.  I don't know why my fuel sock allows grit underneath in the PRI and RES circuit while other bikes' fuel socks don't.  It might be differences caused by a mold that needed cleaning at the time my sock was cast. I might buy another fuel sock at some point, maybe if I ever need to replace my petcock.

If they're filled with junk, think carefully before leaving them out.  That junk came from somewhere and would otherwise go to your carburetors.  I currently have clear inline filters on my bike and like others on the list, I am not happy with them.  They are too large and require a long stretch of fuel line just to get back around to the tees that go to the carbs. The long fuel lines bask in too much heat and I've watched vapor bubbles passing through my fuel fliters from boiled gasoline.  I'm planning to replace the clear inline filters with stubs that hold an extra set of the little fuel filters between the carbs.  Even though these filters will clog just as fast, they should be much more accessible and they shouldn't cause fuel evaporation issues within the fuel lines like I'm seeing right now with longer fuel lines that are up near the cylinder head.
Dave
         From: "h6mrv [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 12:52 AM
 Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: engine cutting out
   

 



 


   
     
     
      Well sure enough I found nothing conclusive last night when I stripped the

tank off and checked the fuel tank and cap venting. So I think I'll be

replacing those filtered tee pieces next as they  could well be clogging up

after 37,000 miles in 12 years. I'll try riding with the fuel cap open as

well just to finally eliminate the venting issue (with the fuel load between

1/2 & 1/4 and on a long straight road to avoid heavy braking)

Thanks again, we're getting there, Sparky Mark.



--

View this message in context: http://triumph-trophy.10955.n7.nabble.com/engine-cutting-out-tp36746p36756.html

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Re: engine cutting out

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Can't.  
I still need to get my swingarm off and serviced, bike back together, and I'm on an all-consuming project at work.  
My daughter is currently living in Durham, so there's a possibility for another year.
- Dave
 
      From: "APSLLP [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: TriumphTrophy <[hidden email]>
 Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 9:29 PM
 Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Re: engine cutting out
   
     Dave,  riding to the Dragon Raid?
Bob


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "David Webb [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
Date: 07/14/2015 7:23 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Re: engine cutting out

   Hi Sparky,
There is no need to replace the fuel filters unless they're missing.  If they're filled with junk, you can just spray them out with WD-40 and put them back.  You can also choose to leave them out.  One of the PO's of my bike did exactly this.
The engineers put those filters there for a reason.

If they're filled with junk, that junk could have also lodged in your petcock and in your needles and seats and flooded your engine with gasoline.  This happened to me when junk got past the underside of the fuel sock while I was switched to RES on my way to a gas station.  My end result was that cylinder #2 filled with gasoline while parked and the engine hydro-locked.  I had to get a ride home, rent a trailer, tow the bike home, rebuild the fuel system and carburetors, change the oil, then strip and de-rust the inside of my tank. 
My bike is a 2002.  I don't know why my fuel sock allows grit underneath in the PRI and RES circuit while other bikes' fuel socks don't.  It might be differences caused by a mold that needed cleaning at the time my sock was cast. I might buy another fuel sock at some point, maybe if I ever need to replace my petcock.

If they're filled with junk, think carefully before leaving them out.  That junk came from somewhere and would otherwise go to your carburetors.  I currently have clear inline filters on my bike and like others on the list, I am not happy with them.  They are too large and require a long stretch of fuel line just to get back around to the tees that go to the carbs. The long fuel lines bask in too much heat and I've watched vapor bubbles passing through my fuel fliters from boiled gasoline.  I'm planning to replace the clear inline filters with stubs that hold an extra set of the little fuel filters between the carbs.  Even though these filters will clog just as fast, they should be much more accessible and they shouldn't cause fuel evaporation issues within the fuel lines like I'm seeing right now with longer fuel lines that are up near the cylinder head.
Dave
 


      From: "h6mrv [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 12:52 AM
 Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: engine cutting out
   
    Well sure enough I found nothing conclusive last night when I stripped the
tank off and checked the fuel tank and cap venting. So I think I'll be
replacing those filtered tee pieces next as they could well be clogging up
after 37,000 miles in 12 years. I'll try riding with the fuel cap open as
well just to finally eliminate the venting issue (with the fuel load between
1/2 & 1/4 and on a long straight road to avoid heavy braking)
Thanks again, we're getting there, Sparky Mark.

--
View this message in context: http://triumph-trophy.10955.n7.nabble.com/engine-cutting-out-tp36746p36756.html
Sent from the Triumph Trophy mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
 

   
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