Voltage too high?

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Voltage too high?

greg95ns
Hi All, My GPS says the alternator is charging at 15 volts. I checked it with my radio shack volt meter, yep 15 volts. Is this too high? The Haynes manual doesn't give a voltage number for a too high reading. Should I travel across Nevada tomorrow? When I pull the fuse that runs the headlights the voltage drops to 12.8
Thanks in advance,
Greg Andrews

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Re: Voltage too high?

Jack Byers
Hi Greg,
   I would think you'll be just fine. The increased voltage is simply  
due to the higher load (current draw). You should have at least 14.2  
volts, so I think you are within tolerance. What you might do just  
for peace of mind is carry a little distilled water along, and take a  
peek at your battery a couple of times when you make a gas stop. I  
doubt you'll have to add water, but check it any how. The bike's  
rectifier is just compensating for the load change. Like it's  
supposed to. My wife is on her way back from Las Vegas, as we speak,  
She said the weather was beautiful and warm. It looks like a good  
time for your ride.
  Kindest regards,
    Poppa Jack
On Jun 14, 2010, at 4:42 PM, Greg wrote:

> Hi All, My GPS says the alternator is charging at 15 volts. I  
> checked it with my radio shack volt meter, yep 15 volts. Is this  
> too high? The Haynes manual doesn't give a voltage number for a too  
> high reading. Should I travel across Nevada tomorrow? When I pull  
> the fuse that runs the headlights the voltage drops to 12.8
> Thanks in advance,
> Greg Andrews
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: Voltage too high?

greg95ns
Hi Jack, Thanks for the reply. I should be in Victorville in about a week.
Greg Andrews

Jack Byers wrote:
Hi Greg,I would think you'll be just fine. The increased voltage is simply  due to the higher load (current draw).  It looks like a good time for your ride.
Kindest regards,
Poppa Jack


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Re: Voltage too high?

bodger barclay
In reply to this post by greg95ns
I once par boiled a battery with a faulty regulator - a possible symptom of over charging would be a black scum in the battery, on the liquid, inside the caps etc.

 
Greg Andrews-3 wrote
Hi All, My GPS says the alternator is charging at 15 volts. I checked it with my radio shack volt meter, yep 15 volts. Is this too high? The Haynes manual doesn't give a voltage number for a too high reading. Should I travel across Nevada tomorrow? When I pull the fuse that runs the headlights the voltage drops to 12.8
Thanks in advance,
Greg Andrews
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Re: Voltage too high?

greg95ns
Hi All, I've put on 2,000 miles since leaving Kansas City. The voltage on the GPS has been reading between 14.9-15.2 mostly it was 15.0
I blew out both low beams. The left side bulb exploded the glass bulb so the high beam  said good bye also. So here I am in California running around with only one high beam.
I called up the Triumph dealer in Livermore. They worked on it as soon as I got in. What a good bunch of guys. Their mechanic replace both bulbs. You know he's done it many times. He didn't even have to take off the chin fairing.
I'm going to change both headlight relays when I get to my brother's.
Greg Andrews
'96 900 BRG

bodger barclay wrote:
I once par boiled a battery with a faulty regulator - a possible symptom of
over charging would be a black scum in the battery, on the liquid, inside
the caps etc.


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Re: Re: Voltage too high?

apsllp@bellsouth.net

"IF" your system voltage is too High, you would pop bulbs more
frequently than you should. There will also be less tolerance to spikes
on the high side when other things turn on and off.  14.9v to 15.2v is
too high.  You should be at 14.5V at 5500rpm per the Haynes manual (page
9.1) At 1500rpm you should be seeing 13.8v.

The symptoms you show point to a regulator that is allowing too high a
voltage.  The regulator is in the Alternator and can be replaced per the
Haynes manual page 9.21. The Alternator can be removed by withdrawing 3
bolts (and possibly the left Aux air chamber).

The regulator is held in place with 2 screws behind the Alternator
cover. If you have the alternator off and sitting in front of you with
the back cover off.   Position the alternator such that the leads will
be at the 6:00 position.  The Regulator sits on the left at 9:00 and the
Rectifier on the right at 2:30 to 4:00

The regulator is not repairable or adjustable.  If testing with a
Ohm-meter shows it to be out of tolerance per chart number 31.9 on page
9.21, you will need to replace it. I'm fairly certain you will find a
failed regulator.  (If you have it that far apart you may want to
replace the brushes while you are in there per the symptoms you are
describing). You shouldn't have to do anything else.

If your not comfortable taking the back cover off the alternator to do
the service, take it to an alternator shop and have them do it.

I'm not surprised the Triumph dealer was not on the ball enough to
realize your system voltage is too high.  Expect to blow more bulbs till
the regulator is replaced.  Just hope your regulator does not run away
out of control and blow your ECU (Computer Brain) before you fix the
regulator. The ECU is Mucho Expensive!

We just went through all of that with the Sluggish Starter Thread a
month or so ago.

Good Luck!


Bob Clark
01 Sunset Red Trophy 1200
Jacksonville, FL

On 6/17/2010 11:04 PM, Greg wrote:
>
> Hi All, I've put on 2,000 miles since leaving Kansas City. The voltage
> on the GPS has been reading between 14.9-15.2 mostly it was 15.0
> I blew out both low beams. The left side bulb exploded the glass bulb
> so the high beam said good bye also. So here I am in California
> running around with only one high beam.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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RE: Re: Voltage too high?

Ed Johnson
Was the sluggish starter issue resolved? If so I missed the solution.
Regards
Ed J.

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:58 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Voltage too high?

 We just went through all of that with the Sluggish Starter Thread a
month or so ago.

Good Luck!


Bob Clark
01 Sunset Red Trophy 1200
Jacksonville, FL

 

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Re: Voltage too high?

JackM-2
In reply to this post by greg95ns
Greg,
Glad you made it to a shop. Weird that the voltage is still so high even after you replaced the regulator.

Oh, I should mention I had the pleasure of meeting Greg on Wednesday. He stopped in for a cool drink on his way through Placerville. Man his BRG BBBS is tricked out...

Have a great weekend, all. I am planning to head to Dixon for the National Antique MC Show and Swap Meet. Hope to see a ton of British singles and twins I don't normally see around. And I could stand maybe a pre-war Harley or two...:)

Jack
Placerville, CA
(Hangtown USA)

--- In [hidden email], "Greg" <gandrews@...> wrote:

>
> Hi All, I've put on 2,000 miles since leaving Kansas City. The voltage on the GPS has been reading between 14.9-15.2 mostly it was 15.0
> I blew out both low beams. The left side bulb exploded the glass bulb so the high beam  said good bye also. So here I am in California running around with only one high beam.
> I called up the Triumph dealer in Livermore. They worked on it as soon as I got in. What a good bunch of guys. Their mechanic replace both bulbs. You know he's done it many times. He didn't even have to take off the chin fairing.
> I'm going to change both headlight relays when I get to my brother's.
> Greg Andrews
> '96 900 BRG
>
> bodger barclay wrote:
> I once par boiled a battery with a faulty regulator - a possible symptom of
> over charging would be a black scum in the battery, on the liquid, inside
> the caps etc.
>


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Re: Voltage too high?

greg95ns
In reply to this post by apsllp@bellsouth.net
Hi Bob, I was hoping to hear from you. When it comes to electrics you're the man.
When I was in Salt Lake City for a few days I had my wife send me a spare alternator I had at home. I also carry a spare voltage regulator and crank sensor when I go on my long trips. I changed out the regulator with the spare but it read the same voltage, Strange. I was ready to change out the alternator when it arrived on Monday, but my brother advised me to wait on that change until I get to his house. Before I got to the Triumph dealer I stopped at an auto parts store to change out the headlight relays. Of course they are buried up under the front fairing. I was able to unplug the high beam relay and try the new one. No change. The low beam relay was stuck and I couldn't unplug it, Corrosion? Could that corrosion on the low beam relay be the cause of the high voltage? Dumb question but I'm grasping at straws at this point. Today I'll swap out the voltage regulator from the spare alternator I'm now carrying.
Thanks for your reply and input.
Greg Andrews


Robert  wrote:
You should be at 14.5V at 5500rpm per the Haynes manual (page 9.1) At 1500rpm you should be seeing 13.8v.
Just hope your regulator does not run away
out of control and blow your ECU (Computer Brain) before you fix the
regulator. The ECU is Mucho Expensive!
Bob Clark


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Re: Re: Voltage too high?

apsllp@bellsouth.net
I doubt corrosion would cause your regulator to push out more current.   Corrosion will cause you to generate heat by the reduced current flow.  Think of water through a pipe with Voltage being Volume and Amperage being the amount of pressure.  

If you want to test your theory....pull out the relays (Hence no lights) and start the bike....measure then your voltage.

Bob





________________________________
From: Greg <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 2:09:32 PM
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Voltage too high?

 
Hi Bob, I was hoping to hear from you. When it comes to electrics you're the man.
When I was in Salt Lake City for a few days I had my wife send me a spare alternator I had at home. I also carry a spare voltage regulator and crank sensor when I go on my long trips. I changed out the regulator with the spare but it read the same voltage, Strange. I was ready to change out the alternator when it arrived on Monday, but my brother advised me to wait on that change until I get to his house. Before I got to the Triumph dealer I stopped at an auto parts store to change out the headlight relays. Of course they are buried up under the front fairing. I was able to unplug the high beam relay and try the new one. No change. The low beam relay was stuck and I couldn't unplug it, Corrosion? Could that corrosion on the low beam relay be the cause of the high voltage? Dumb question but I'm grasping at straws at this point. Today I'll swap out the voltage regulator from the spare alternator I'm now carrying.
Thanks for your reply and input.
Greg Andrews

Robert  wrote:
You should be at 14.5V at 5500rpm per the Haynes manual (page 9.1) At 1500rpm you should be seeing 13.8v.
Just hope your regulator does not run away
out of control and blow your ECU (Computer Brain) before you fix the
regulator. The ECU is Mucho Expensive!
Bob Clark


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Voltage too high?

philipwallington

 Corrosion? Could that corrosion on the low beam relay be the cause of the high voltage? Dumb question but I'm grasping at straws at this point.
> Greg Andrews
>

Hi Greg - to keep it simple, there are two things that mainly dictate the voltage you'll see on the bike - the battery and the alternator. A healthy battery will support current draws and act like a kind of buffer - voltage dropping a little as it delivers current and rising as it receives current - being charged. The alternator is the only thing that can deliver current to the battery and hence push the voltage higher. A corroded connection can only provide a resistance in the relevant circuit that will drop volts and reduce the current flowing.

Your 15 volts IS too high and can only be coming from the alternator - the fact that you've replaced the regulator makes me think you have two bad examples - very unusual. But the high volts can only be coming from there - everything else draws current and tries to pull the voltage down.

Seems your regulator is bumping the voltage up as it delivers more current - watch out for more bulb failures and a hot battery.

Just my thoughts late in the evening - good luck

Philip

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Re: Re: Voltage too high?

John Barrett
In reply to this post by Ed Johnson
Ed, Kevin is awaiting the delivery of a new starter motor from America as a
replacement second hand one made the situation worse. Jubba

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Ed Johnson" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 11:40 AM
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Voltage too high?

> Was the sluggish starter issue resolved? If so I missed the solution.
> Regards
> Ed J.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
> On Behalf Of Robert
> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 11:58 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Voltage too high?
>
> We just went through all of that with the Sluggish Starter Thread a
> month or so ago.
>
> Good Luck!
>
>
> Bob Clark
> 01 Sunset Red Trophy 1200
> Jacksonville, FL
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> List guidelines: PLEASE NO grumpy replies, or replies which merely add
> agreement to a previous post. If a reply is only relevant to the original
> writer, please REPLY DIRECT to that person. No SPAM, no adult-oriented
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> except for personal items for sale/wanted. Please trim old messages to a
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Voltage Regulator / alternator

apsllp@bellsouth.net
In reply to this post by philipwallington
Phillip: to drill down further......


Greg:  The Regulator is INSIDE the Alternator. So if you replaced the
regulator you've removed the alternator and opened it up.

If you didn't do that then I'm not sure what you are calling the regulator?

Is it possible you swapped Alternators ?

Bob Clark
01 Sunset Red Trophy 1200
Jacksonville, FL

On 6/18/2010 6:35 PM, philipwallington wrote:

>
>
> Corrosion? Could that corrosion on the low beam relay be the cause of
> the high voltage? Dumb question but I'm grasping at straws at this point.
> > Greg Andrews
> >
>
> Hi Greg - to keep it simple, there are two things that mainly dictate
> the voltage you'll see on the bike - the battery and the alternator. A
> healthy battery will support current draws and act like a kind of
> buffer - voltage dropping a little as it delivers current and rising
> as it receives current - being charged. The alternator is the only
> thing that can deliver current to the battery and hence push the
> voltage higher. A corroded connection can only provide a resistance in
> the relevant circuit that will drop volts and reduce the current flowing.
>
> Your 15 volts IS too high and can only be coming from the alternator -
> the fact that you've replaced the regulator makes me think you have
> two bad examples - very unusual. But the high volts can only be coming
> from there - everything else draws current and tries to pull the
> voltage down.
>
> Seems your regulator is bumping the voltage up as it delivers more
> current - watch out for more bulb failures and a hot battery.
>
> Just my thoughts late in the evening - good luck
>
> Philip
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Voltage too high?

greg95ns
In reply to this post by philipwallington
Hi Philip,
 Thanks for the reply. Today I pulled the regulator off of the spare alternator I'm now carrying. It also puts out 14.9 volts at 3,000 rpm. To change the regulator is an easy job. The cap comes off with three nuts, and 4 screws inside and it's off. It's got to be the alternator doing this. Putting 2 other regulators on and getting the same results. I've got  500 miles to go  before get to my brother's then I'll change the alternator.

Hi Steve, these bikes are very reliable. This is the first issue I've had in 60,000 miles. And we come here when we are having a problem and seeking advice. Lots of knowledgeable people with lots of experience.
Greg Andrews
'96 900 BRG


 "philipwallington"  wrote:
 A healthy battery will support current draws and act like a kind of buffer - voltage dropping a little as it delivers current and rising as it receives current - being charged. The alternator is the only thing that can deliver current to the battery and hence push the voltage higher. A corroded connection can only provide a resistance in the relevant circuit that will drop volts and reduce the current flowing.
 Your 15 volts IS too high and can only be coming from the alternator - the fact that you've replaced the regulator makes me think you have two bad examples - very unusual. watch out for more bulb failures and a hot battery.
 Philip



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Re: Voltage too high?

rickh1001


--- In [hidden email], "Greg" <gandrews@...> wrote:
>
Today I pulled the regulator off of the spare alternator I'm now carrying. It also puts out 14.9 volts at 3,000 rpm. To change the regulator is an easy job. The cap comes off with three nuts, and 4 screws inside and it's off. It's got to be the alternator doing this.

Greg,

I don't know if there is an "alternator flue" going around, but after reading of your problems, I checked the output of my 2000 Trophy 900 with 50K miles, and it is putting out 15.3 V at higher RPM.  I called Great Bay and Triumph sells the regulator (@ $137).  I am wondering if it can be found cheaper at an electronics automotive supply house or somewhere else, once I give them the part number.  Like you, I'll have to fix this pretty soon now that I've discovered it.  I just hate to pay that much money for what must be a fairly standard electronic item, common probably to many other Japanese-sourced alternators.

Any ideas, or should I just bite the bullet?  Also, I am a bit leary of buying a used alternator at about the same price, as it might well have the same problem.

Rick Hartwick
00 Trophy 900

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Re: Voltage too high? (sluggish starter when hot.)

Kevin B-2
In reply to this post by John Barrett
Been really busy at work and, I forgot, it probably wont even be ordered on Monday as I am at a funeral!

So order going on Tuesday evening.

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Re: Voltage too high?

greg95ns
In reply to this post by rickh1001
Hi Rick,
On Tuesday or Wednesday I'll be changing out the alternator. I'm curious on what its output is going to be. So wait a few days and let me get back to the group on how the spare alternator is doing.
A couple of years ago I had an adjustable regulator installed. Just turn a little screw and dial in the total volts you want to come out. Sweet. Too bad it only lasted about 10,000 miles. I went back to the same guy to have another one made, but he could no longer work due to poor health. So I had to put back the original regulator. Somebody has probably figured how to replace that little soldered in regulator. We just haven't heard from him yet. I wonder about kicking this idea over to the Triumph rat forum.
Greg Andrews
'96 900 BRG


 "rick"  wrote:
I don't know if there is an "alternator flue" going around, but after reading of your problems, I checked the output of my 2000 Trophy 900 with 50K miles, and it is putting out 15.3 V at higher RPM.  I called Great Bay and Triumph sells the regulator (@ $137).  I am wondering if it can be found cheaper at an electronics automotive supply house or somewhere else, once I give them the part number.  Like you, I'll have to fix this pretty soon now that I've discovered it.  I just hate to pay that much money for what must be a fairly standard electronic item, common probably to many other Japanese-sourced alternators.
 Any ideas, or should I just bite the bullet?  Also, I am a bit leary of buying a used alternator at about the same price, as it might well have the same problem.
 Rick Hartwick



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Re: Voltage too high?

etcmchugh
In reply to this post by greg95ns



I hate to have to differ with all on board this wagon, but the voltage being too high is most often a symptom of a break in the harness. (Sorry Poppa, but you got it backwards: more current=lower voltage. Not to worry, you're still young and trainable!)

If you are seeing voltage that is too high, think ground. If you have a weak ground connection, especially one that is central to the harness like at the alternator or battery itself, the increased resistance will cause the regulator (again, as mentioned, IN your alternator) to try compensating for it, especially if there is a difference between the alternator ground and what the rest of the bike sees as ground. The good news here is that ground faults are relatively easy to shoot and/or rectify (pun intended). Disconnect the battery, and check resistance between the grounding point on the alternator, that should be a rather obvious BDW (big damn wire, tech-speak) going to the frame, and the negative terminal lug that would normally be on the battery. If you see more than 1 ohm (remember to zero your meter) then work backwards until you find your loose connection or corroded ground point.

In the absolute worst case, you can run a parallel ground wire where needed, but we'll cross that bridge (more electrical humor, I love it!) when we get there.

Let me know what you find, and we'll keep going if we have to.

Good luck,
Q

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Re: Re: Voltage too high? Guys.....the Regulator is put in with SCREWS. IT's the RECTIFIER that is soldered in (Message not snipped due to required continuity of the thread)

apsllp@bellsouth.net
In reply to this post by greg95ns

Hello.....Did you not carefully read my post or look at the Manual?

The RECTIFIER is Soldered in.

The REGULATOR is put into the Alternator with screws.

IF your Regulator is pushing too much Voltage it has either failed or
what is most likely happening is that it is compensating for a Poor
Ground (Or EARTH) as the Brits call it.

There is NO REASON to buy a new Alternator or to swap the one you
have.   Measure your Grounds, Clean them, then re-measure them.

There is no reason to not know an alternator or regulators output. Take
it to an alternator shop and have them put it on the test stand and they
will tell you exactly what it's output is.


If your output is higher on your bike than on the test stand, there are
2 possibilities, A Poor Ground, Or a mis calibrated Voltage meter.

As I recall, you were taking your voltage reading from a GPS, not a
Voltmeter......Any chance your GPS is telling you something different
than you actually measure with a calibrated volt meter?


I seriously doubt it is your Alternator.

Bob Clark
01 Sunset Red Trophy 1200
Jacksonville, FL


On 6/19/2010 10:23 AM, Greg wrote:

>
> Hi Rick,
> On Tuesday or Wednesday I'll be changing out the alternator. I'm
> curious on what its output is going to be. So wait a few days and let
> me get back to the group on how the spare alternator is doing.
> A couple of years ago I had an adjustable regulator installed. Just
> turn a little screw and dial in the total volts you want to come out.
> Sweet. Too bad it only lasted about 10,000 miles. I went back to the
> same guy to have another one made, but he could no longer work due to
> poor health. So I had to put back the original regulator. Somebody has
> probably figured how to replace that little soldered in regulator. We
> just haven't heard from him yet. I wonder about kicking this idea over
> to the Triumph rat forum.
> Greg Andrews
> '96 900 BRG
>
> "rick" wrote:
> I don't know if there is an "alternator flue" going around, but after
> reading of your problems, I checked the output of my 2000 Trophy 900
> with 50K miles, and it is putting out 15.3 V at higher RPM. I called
> Great Bay and Triumph sells the regulator (@ $137). I am wondering if
> it can be found cheaper at an electronics automotive supply house or
> somewhere else, once I give them the part number. Like you, I'll have
> to fix this pretty soon now that I've discovered it. I just hate to
> pay that much money for what must be a fairly standard electronic
> item, common probably to many other Japanese-sourced alternators.
> Any ideas, or should I just bite the bullet? Also, I am a bit leary of
> buying a used alternator at about the same price, as it might well
> have the same problem.
> Rick Hartwick
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: Re: Voltage too high?

Jack Byers
In reply to this post by etcmchugh
Hey Mark!
   HAPPY FATHER'S DAY ! And, thanks for straightening me out on my  
electrical theory. What have you been up to? Are you going to be in  
town for the next couple of weeks? Let's go out for a ride together  
next weekend.
    I had an appointment with my "Bone Doctor" this past week, and it  
turns out that I have to have a little surgery on both shoulders. He  
is going to start with my left side, on August 30th, and my right  
side a couple of months later. This getting old stuff hurts. In any  
case I don't have a clue about how long I'll be laid up, so I'd like  
to get in a couple nice rides in before my surgeries. Let me know  
what your busy schedule looks like over the next month, and let's go  
somewhere. I guess I need to take another look at Ohm's law to wrap  
my pointy little head around the relationship between voltage, and  
amperage? Saay hey to your family and dogs for me, I hope to see you  
soon.
  Kindest regards,
    Poppa Jack
On Jun 19, 2010, at 3:26 PM, Q wrote:

>
>
> I hate to have to differ with all on board this wagon, but the  
> voltage being too high is most often a symptom of a break in the  
> harness. (Sorry Poppa, but you got it backwards: more current=lower  
> voltage. Not to worry, you're still young and trainable!)
>
> If you are seeing voltage that is too high, think ground. If you  
> have a weak ground connection, especially one that is central to  
> the harness like at the alternator or battery itself, the increased  
> resistance will cause the regulator (again, as mentioned, IN your  
> alternator) to try compensating for it, especially if there is a  
> difference between the alternator ground and what the rest of the  
> bike sees as ground. The good news here is that ground faults are  
> relatively easy to shoot and/or rectify (pun intended). Disconnect  
> the battery, and check resistance between the grounding point on  
> the alternator, that should be a rather obvious BDW (big damn wire,  
> tech-speak) going to the frame, and the negative terminal lug that  
> would normally be on the battery. If you see more than 1 ohm  
> (remember to zero your meter) then work backwards until you find  
> your loose connection or corroded ground point.
>
> In the absolute worst case, you can run a parallel ground wire  
> where needed, but we'll cross that bridge (more electrical humor, I  
> love it!) when we get there.
>
> Let me know what you find, and we'll keep going if we have to.
>
> Good luck,
> Q
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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