Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Trophy 900 carbs headache

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hello all!
 

 I recently bought a 97 Trophy 900 with only 20,000, in beautiful shape... but partly disassembled. The previous owner had carbs overflowing, took off the carbs, cleaned them and never put it back together. The bike sat for 4 years... I cleaned the tank, the carbs (twice, including a long chem dip) and they look pristine. The bike fires right up, idle and rev with a little throttle, but stumble and almost stall with full throttle.
 

 I am pretty confident the carbs are clean and assembled correctly, the boots are good (soft, no cracks) and the air box is connected. When I partially block the air box intake, the bike runs well full throttle. So, it seems to me that I am either very lean or that I have a vacuum leak. I can't find a leak and the carbs have the stocks jets. I set the mixture screws is set to 2 1/4 turns. The clips are already on the lowest setting on the needle.
 

 I am frustrated and have no idea what else it could be. Any suggestions? I want to ride this bike. I'm itching.
 
 Thanks!
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Hi Roland, 1997 should be Mikunis I'm thinking you are running too lean. The needles have 5 notches. Put the clip on the middle notch. The main jets should be 125, 120 or 123, and 125. I found my Trophy ran better with 125 in all 3 main jets. 2 &1/4 out on the air screws is a bit rich. 2 turns should be enough. Most of the schematics are wrong  when they show the picture of the air screw and related parts. If you are holding the air screw in your hand. First put on the spring, then the washer, and lastly the o-ring. The o-ring is on tight enough that it will hold the washer and spring in-place when you insert the air screw. Many of the schematic pictures don't show either the o-ring or washer.
 Greg Andrews
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Are the caps in place on the unused vacuum take-offs?

    On Friday, 1 April 2016, 5:21, "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
 

     Hi Roland, 1997 should be MikunisI'm thinking you are running too lean. The needles have 5 notches. Put the clip on the middle notch. The main jets should be 125, 120 or 123, and 125. I found my Trophy ran better with 125 in all 3 main jets. 2 &1/4 out on the air screws is a bit rich. 2 turns should be enough. Most of the schematics are wrong  when they show the picture of the air screw and related parts. If you are holding the air screw in your hand. First put on the spring, then the washer, and lastly the o-ring. The o-ring is on tight enough that it will hold the washer and spring in-place when you insert the air screw. Many of the schematic pictures don't show either the o-ring or washer.Greg Andrews  #yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669 -- #yiv0949958669ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669ygrp-mkp #yiv0949958669hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669ygrp-mkp #yiv0949958669ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669ygrp-mkp .yiv0949958669ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669ygrp-mkp .yiv0949958669ad p {margin:0;}#yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669ygrp-mkp .yiv0949958669ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669ygrp-sponsor #yiv0949958669ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669ygrp-sponsor #yiv0949958669ygrp-lc #yiv0949958669hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv0949958669 #yiv0949958669ygrp-sponsor 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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Greg,

 You're right: my carbs are the Mikunis 36. My main jets are all three 105. I looked up the schematics and you're correct, they should be 125,120,125. I wonder if the previous owner rebuilt the carbs with the wrong jet. I assumed he only cleaned them. I should have checked... That's clearly my problem. 105 is way too small. I'll change the setting for the needle and adjust the mixture too.
 

 I had the o'ring, washer, spring,etc. in the right order. Some of the diagram did not make sense to me. Glad you confirming it.
 

 I off to order the right jets. Thanks a bunch!
 

 Cheers,
Roland.
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Yes, I capped everything.  

 Greg got it though. My jets are all wrong for some reason.
 

 Thanks for helping!
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Hi Roland, Whoever was in the carbs the last time must have thought 105 main jets work on the 1200 engine, let's put them in the 900 engine. I wonder how a 1200 engine would respond to bigger jets. I've read where the K&N flows more air and the 1200's don't like it.
 Greg
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Is it possible the carbs came off of a 750?

On 4/2/2016 9:12 AM, [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:

>
>
> Hi Roland,
> Whoever was in the carbs the last time must have thought 105 main jets
> work on the 1200 engine, let's put them in the 900 engine. I wonder
> how a 1200 engine would respond to bigger jets. I've read where the
> K&N flows more air and the 1200's don't like it.
> Greg
>
>
>

--
Ed J. Indian Harbour Beach, FL 2001 Triumph Trophy 1200 321-795-4387


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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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I'm finally back home again from travel for work.  When I fire up the computer, I have a chart for the various 900 jettings on Mikuni carbs.....


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
Date: 04/02/2016  9:12 AM  (GMT-05:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache


 



 


   
     
     
      Hi Roland,Whoever was in the carbs the last time must have thought 105 main jets work on the 1200 engine, let's put them in the 900 engine. I wonder how a 1200 engine would respond to bigger jets. I've read where the K&N flows more air and the 1200's don't like it.Greg

   
     

   
   


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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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I have a '96 1200 and put the K&N conversion from Sprint engineering into the air box. I am sorry I didn't do it a long time ago. The motor is running much better and I am getting 20 - 30 more Klms out of the tank. My 1200 certainly likes the better breathing.
 JohnM

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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Hi Roland,
I had something like this happen last summer and troubleshot my fuel system to death.  It wound up being the coils.  They couldn't produce enough spark to bridge the gap under high cylinder pressures associated with wider throttle openings.  Before you spend a significant additional effort on the carbs, check the your coils to make sure that they aren't dying.  Also, there could be an issue with the crankshaft position sensor as well.  Sometimes, the sensor gap is a bit too wide.  I can imagine that at high RPM, this might not work so well.
Having said that, make sure your vacuum caps on top of the carbs are good, and also the o-rings underneath the vacuum ports.  They have a tendency to compress with age and might leak.  Also, there is a possibility that you're experiencing fuel starvation.  The fuel system is gravity-fed, and the little fuel filters between the carburetors are easily clogged with debris.  You will want to check for pinched fuel lines or a pinched vacuum line to the fuel tap.
To confirm, you're using E-10 gasoline or are you using E-0?  If you have access to E-0 (ethanol-free), it might help anything having to do with your fuel system.
- Dave

 
      From: "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2016 5:52 PM
 Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Trophy 900 carbs headache
   
    Hello all!
I recently bought a 97 Trophy 900 with only 20,000, in beautiful shape... but partly disassembled. The previous owner had carbs overflowing, took off the carbs, cleaned them and never put it back together. The bike sat for 4 years... I cleaned the tank, the carbs (twice, including a long chem dip) and they look pristine. The bike fires right up, idle and rev with a little throttle, but stumble and almost stall with full throttle. 
I am pretty confident the carbs are clean and assembled correctly, the boots are good (soft, no cracks) and the air box is connected. When I partially block the air box intake, the bike runs well full throttle. So, it seems to me that I am either very lean or that I have a vacuum leak. I can't find a leak and the carbs have the stocks jets. I set the mixture screws is set to 2 1/4 turns. The clips are already on the lowest setting on the needle. 
I am frustrated and have no idea what else it could be. Any suggestions? I want to ride this bike. I'm itching. Thanks!  #yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832 -- #yiv4878062832ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832ygrp-mkp #yiv4878062832hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832ygrp-mkp #yiv4878062832ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832ygrp-mkp .yiv4878062832ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832ygrp-mkp .yiv4878062832ad p {margin:0;}#yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832ygrp-mkp .yiv4878062832ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832ygrp-sponsor #yiv4878062832ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832ygrp-sponsor #yiv4878062832ygrp-lc #yiv4878062832hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv4878062832 #yiv4878062832ygrp-sponsor #yiv4878062832ygrp-lc .yiv4878062832ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Thought I'd give a quick update. I checked everything that was suggested and could not find anything wrong. It certainly seemed a carb issue, even though I cleaned them twice. But I couldn't figure it out. And pulling these carbs out was not something I was looking for... again!  

 I finally decided to bring my Trophy to a local Triumph dealer. They are pretty expensive, but I was ready to pay to have the problem diagnose the issue, at least. Everything checked out like I thought (compression, etc.) and they confirmed the problem is in my carbs. They were pretty helpful actually and showed me a couple of area in the carbs I should try to clean again... even thought they looked in good shape. Well, I'm little poorer, but at least, I'm back on track...
 

 Thank you all for your suggestions!
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Hi Roland,

 I think you don't know for sure the carbs were actually cleaned nor how well. You do know for sure they have the wrong size jets in them. I think you need to get back to square one here by tearing down the carbs and giving them a proper cleaning with an ultrasonic cleaner, putting the correct main jets in and checking to be sure the other jets are correct. If there is any doubt about those, replace them as well.
 

 Cheers,
 Glenn
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Hi Roland,  Did you try my suggestions dated March 31? No amount of cleaning is going to correct for wrong sized main jets, or a needle clips in the wrong position.
 

 Greg Andrews
 '96 900 BRG
 105,000 smiles and runs as good as new, no, better than new.
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Roland:
I've found most people don't fully strip the carbs. Many shops don't go that deep either.  They put them in an ultrasonic cleaner which can't clean emulsion tubes still in place. (Laws of physics apply here).  Hence the very small holes along the length of the emulsion tubes never get cleaned.  Also, there is seal between the emulsion tube and the worn slide carrier which both need replacing.    The carriers are hard to find.  There is a source in California.
Once you know what jet sizes you need,  go to www.jetsrus.com and purchase Mikuni equivelents at $3 ea.  That way your sure they are clean and no one has reamed out the jets trying to mechanically clean them.
The engine can never run correctly with wrong sized jets in the carbs.  They are too easy to change to the proper sizes.  And in expensive.
Bob Clark01 Sunset Red Trophy 120096 BRG Thunderbird 900

Bob Clark


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
Date: 04/19/2016  6:52 PM  (GMT-05:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache


 



 


   
     
     
      Thought I'd give a quick update. I checked everything that was suggested and could not find anything wrong. It certainly seemed a carb issue, even though I cleaned them twice. But I couldn't figure it out. And pulling these carbs out was not something I was looking for... again! 
I finally decided to bring my Trophy to a local Triumph dealer. They are pretty expensive, but I was ready to pay to have the problem diagnose the issue, at least. Everything checked out like I thought (compression, etc.) and they confirmed the problem is in my carbs. They were pretty helpful actually and showed me a couple of area in the carbs I should try to clean again... even thought they looked in good shape. Well, I'm little poorer, but at least, I'm back on track...
Thank you all for your suggestions!

   
     

   
   


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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Greg,

 Yes, I changed to the main jets to the correct size, checked the pilot jets and adjusted everything else as you suggested. But the problem remains. The bike runs a little differently, but no better. I will have to tear the carbs apart again to clean them... again!
 

 Cheers,
Roland.
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Hi Ronald,

So the issue is a heavy stumble and near stall at full throttle. Are you
sure the float setting are correct? Sounds like the bowls are running real
low on fuel. Have you replaced the plugs and air filter? What color are the
plugs turning?

Best,
Samuel
On Apr 20, 2016 6:40 PM, "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
[hidden email]> wrote:



Greg,

Yes, I changed to the main jets to the correct size, checked the pilot jets
and adjusted everything else as you suggested. But the problem remains. The
bike runs a little differently, but no better. I will have to tear the
carbs apart again to clean them... again!

Cheers,
Roland.



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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Hi Roland,  Can you give more information on how it is running now? Such as pulling away from a stop, accelerating from  35 mph slow speed cruise does it fall on its face? whacking open the throttle when doing 75 or 80 mph.
 Greg Andrews
 

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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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I think that IF he has the carbs apart, sending pictures of the parts when carbs are completely stripped might help.  Before they get re assebled.  There is likely something very basic amis that somone is missing each time.
I know it was frustrating when I had to do my dads bike after it sat for neat 13 years due to his cancer.  Somone ruined carbs for him with starting fluid and the wrong chemicals.   That is when I learned of the crucial cleaning of pores and relationship of wear in emulsion tubes and slide carriers.
Roland,  WHERE ARE YOU LOCATED ?
Bob Clark


Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
Date: 04/20/2016  10:49 PM  (GMT-05:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache


 



 


   
     
     
      Hi Roland, Can you give more information on how it is running now? Such as pulling away from a stop, accelerating from  35 mph slow speed cruise does it fall on its face? whacking open the throttle when doing 75 or 80 mph.Greg Andrews


   
     

   
   


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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Bob,

 I am in Sacramento, CA. I am waiting on a few o'rings I ordered before I pull apart the carbs again. I can certainly take pictures while cleaning them and upload them. See I missed anything. The Triumph mechanic told me everything looked right (he pulled the carbs and took a quick look) and he thinks part of the low speed circuit is blocked. Some of the small passage must not be clean enough.
 

 Thanks for helping!
 Roland.
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Re: Trophy 900 carbs headache

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Greg,

 I have never taken the bike on the open road yet (unless on a trailer counts...). This is bike I bought after it sat for 4 years. After the carbs were cleaned by the previous owner.
 

 The bikes starts easily on the choke. It's seems difficult to adjust the idle though and that's probably another symptom. If I crack open the throttle just a little (a tiny bit), it revs. A little more, it stalls. Once warmed up, I can open the throttle fully, but the engine stumbles, run rough for a couple of seconds and then revs strong. It will stall almost anywhere between just opened and fully opened. All this is with the complete airbox system connected and some level of choke.
 

 I know the carbs are not synced and that's next on the list. But that's clearly not my main problem right now.  If I block part of the air intake (half...) (with the complete box/secondary box), it runs pretty well. But on a stand, I have no idea how much power is actually there or how smooth the acceleration would be on the road. It may be revving, but may well run with half the power...
 

 Compression is ok, leak test perfect, coils within specs, plugs ok, no leak that I can see (good boots, evap port plugged).
 

 Thanks for helping,
 

 Cheers,
Roland.
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