Time for Shims

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Time for Shims

Triumph Trophy mailing list
It's been 6K miles since my last valve check, and what a difference it made.  I'm guessing that my engine has finally finished breaking-in. It's amazing what lots of highway miles will do for an engine break-in.
The last time I measured valve clearances, I had 3 valves with tight tolerances, but nothing super-concerning.  Now, all valves are below spec, so I'll be swapping and buying shims to get it right.
I was reading on the Triumph forum, and it looks like I probably didn't hurt anything by letting them go longer than they should, but I think that at this point, they would wear faster because the valves won't reject as much heat.
Since I need to address all of my valves, I think I'm going to remove the cams to get at all of the shims at once.
- Dave
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Re: Time for Shims

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Hey Dave,

Figure on doing it twice. In my case even with absolute accuracy I still
had to redo two of 16. I agree with pulling the cams. Just make sure to
mark the journal caps so you can return them to the exact same orientation.
And triple check the chain timing before restarting.

Best,
Samuel
On Oct 23, 2016 2:33 PM, "David Webb [hidden email]
[TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> It's been 6K miles since my last valve check, and what a difference it
> made.  I'm guessing that my engine has finally finished breaking-in. It's
> amazing what lots of highway miles will do for an engine break-in.
>
> The last time I measured valve clearances, I had 3 valves with tight
> tolerances, but nothing super-concerning.  Now, all valves are below spec,
> so I'll be swapping and buying shims to get it right.
>
> I was reading on the Triumph forum, and it looks like I probably didn't
> hurt anything by letting them go longer than they should, but I think that
> at this point, they would wear faster because the valves won't reject as
> much heat.
>
> Since I need to address all of my valves, I think I'm going to remove the
> cams to get at all of the shims at once.
>
> - Dave
>
>
>
>
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Re: Time for Shims

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Hi Dave, It sounds like this will be the first time for you to remove the cams. When putting the cams back in you'll find the need to want to turns the cams and little to settle the chain on the sprocket. On each cam is a cast in hex. It is a little over 19mm. I took a spare 19mm open end wrench and did some grinding on it. Now it will fit onto the hex on the cam. Also take out the spark plugs. It will be easier to turn the crankshaft.
 Greg Andrews
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Re: Time for Shims

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Thanks Samuel,
From what I've read, I should be able to rotate the engine so that none of the intake valves are open, then back off the bolts on the cam caps for the intake cam, remove one shim at a time, and measure.  Then I should be able to do the same for the exhaust cam.  I might not need to completely remove any of the cam caps, but I'll mark them with a sharpie first anyways.  I think that I'll need to also do something with the cam chain tensioner while all this is happening in order to not lose tension on the cam chain when I tighten the cam caps.
My micrometer is on-order form Amazon and should arrive tomorrow.
After measuring shims, I should be able to determine which of them I can move to different valves and which of them I'll need to replace.  I've read that I should be able to swap with the dealership so that I'm not out the entire price of all of the shims that I need to replace.  If I needed to replace all shims, that would be 16x the price of a shim (~$6.00).  Ouch.
- Dave

 
      From: "Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 4:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Time for Shims
   
    Hey Dave,Figure on doing it twice. In my case even with absolute accuracy I still had to redo two of 16. I agree with pulling the cams. Just make sure to mark the journal caps so you can return them to the exact same orientation. And triple check the chain timing before restarting. Best,
SamuelOn Oct 23, 2016 2:33 PM, "David Webb [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

It's been 6K miles since my last valve check, and what a difference it made.  I'm guessing that my engine has finally finished breaking-in. It's amazing what lots of highway miles will do for an engine break-in.
The last time I measured valve clearances, I had 3 valves with tight tolerances, but nothing super-concerning.  Now, all valves are below spec, so I'll be swapping and buying shims to get it right.
I was reading on the Triumph forum, and it looks like I probably didn't hurt anything by letting them go longer than they should, but I think that at this point, they would wear faster because the valves won't reject as much heat.
Since I need to address all of my valves, I think I'm going to remove the cams to get at all of the shims at once.
- Dave


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Re: Time for Shims

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Thanks Greg,
You've done this before and I haven't.  This is my second time with the cam cover off, but the first time swapping shims.
As I mentioned to Samuel, I've read that I might not need to completely remove the cams in order to get at the shims.  Can you confirm or refute this assumption?  I can get another 19mm to grind on if needed.
Spark plugs are out.  Each are a nice tan color on the insulator.  Looks like my carbs are where I want them (at least prior to re-shimming).
- Dave

 
      From: "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Monday, October 24, 2016 8:58 AM
 Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Time for Shims
   
    Hi Dave, It sounds like this will be the first time for you to remove the cams. When putting the cams back in you'll find the need to want to turns the cams and little to settle the chain on the sprocket. On each cam is a cast in hex. It is a little over 19mm. I took a spare 19mm open end wrench and did some grinding on it. Now it will fit onto the hex on the cam.Also take out the spark plugs. It will be easier to turn the crankshaft.Greg Andrews  #yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220 -- #yiv7676116220ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220ygrp-mkp #yiv7676116220hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220ygrp-mkp #yiv7676116220ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220ygrp-mkp .yiv7676116220ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220ygrp-mkp .yiv7676116220ad p {margin:0;}#yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220ygrp-mkp .yiv7676116220ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220ygrp-sponsor #yiv7676116220ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220ygrp-sponsor #yiv7676116220ygrp-lc #yiv7676116220hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv7676116220 #yiv7676116220ygrp-sponsor #yiv7676116220ygrp-lc 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Re: Time for Shims

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Good luck on getting a dealer to "Swap" with you.
Go to Cycle Gear and buy the 25mm shims you need.  I would NOT remove the cams.  Too easy and less risk to do it right.
Bob Clark


Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "David Webb [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
Date: 10/24/16  9:06 AM  (GMT-05:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Time for Shims














 

 



 


   
     
     
      Thanks Samuel,
From what I've read, I should be able to rotate the engine so that none of the intake valves are open, then back off the bolts on the cam caps for the intake cam, remove one shim at a time, and measure.  Then I should be able to do the same for the exhaust cam.  I might not need to completely remove any of the cam caps, but I'll mark them with a sharpie first anyways.  I think that I'll need to also do something with the cam chain tensioner while all this is happening in order to not lose tension on the cam chain when I tighten the cam caps.
My micrometer is on-order form Amazon and should arrive tomorrow.
After measuring shims, I should be able to determine which of them I can move to different valves and which of them I'll need to replace.  I've read that I should be able to swap with the dealership so that I'm not out the entire price of all of the shims that I need to replace.  If I needed to replace all shims, that would be 16x the price of a shim (~$6.00).  Ouch.
- Dave

       From: "Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2016 4:15 PM
 Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Time for Shims
   

 



 


   
     
     
      Hey Dave,
Figure on doing it twice. In my case even with absolute accuracy I still had to redo two of 16. I agree with pulling the cams. Just make sure to mark the journal caps so you can return them to the exact same orientation. And triple check the chain timing before restarting.
Best,

Samuel
On Oct 23, 2016 2:33 PM, "David Webb [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:







       












It's been 6K miles since my last valve check, and what a difference it made.  I'm guessing that my engine has finally finished breaking-in. It's amazing what lots of highway miles will do for an engine break-in.
The last time I measured valve clearances, I had 3 valves with tight tolerances, but nothing super-concerning.  Now, all valves are below spec, so I'll be swapping and buying shims to get it right.
I was reading on the Triumph forum, and it looks like I probably didn't hurt anything by letting them go longer tha
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Re: Time for Shims

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In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Dave,  Sorry to burst your bubble, but a set of valves will be partially opened no matter where the cam is turned. This works for both intake and exhaust.
 An egg carton works well to hold and separate the parts. I like the recycled paper carton, more substantial.
 I sent a regular email to show how to set up a data sheet. Let me know if it didn't come thru.
 

 After you have all the valve clearances recorded you can loosen the cam chain. The tensioner has 2 little 8 or 10mm bolts securing the tensioner to the case. In-between those small bolts is a big 19mm bolt head that holds the cam chain spring. Take that big 19mm off first. Pull out the adjuster and spring. Look at the notches on the adjuster. Count how many notches are exposed. should be 8-12 notches with your low mileage bike. There are about a total of 20 notches on the adjuster. When it gets out near the end,17-19 is time to buy another cam chain.
 

 Do one cam at a time. Loosen the cam caps. Organize the caps in the egg carton. Lift off the chain, and lift out the cam. Now you want to know the size of all the shims. A magnetic tool does a good job of lifting out the shim and bucket. I shot of air in the little slot between the bucket and shim lifts out the shim easily. Most shims have the size etched on the underneath side of the shim.
 

 This post is getting long. Feel free to write back on regular email for more details.
 Greg
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Re: Time for Shims [1 Attachment]

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Thanks for the moral support today! Image result for happy faceTracking
number on the fuel line is USPS 9505 5151 6607 6298 0468 29

     TTYL!

Ed J.


On 10/24/2016 2:54 PM, [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:

>
>
> Hi Dave,
> Sorry to burst your bubble, but a set of valves will be partially
> opened no matter where the cam is turned. This works for both intake
> and exhaust.
> An egg carton works well to hold and separate the parts. I like the
> recycled paper carton, more substantial.
> I sent a regular email to show how to set up a data sheet. Let me know
> if it didn't come thru.
>
> After you have all the valve clearances recorded you can loosen the
> cam chain. The tensioner has 2 little 8 or 10mm bolts securing the
> tensioner to the case. In-between those small bolts is a big 19mm bolt
> head that holds the cam chain spring. Take that big 19mm off first.
> Pull out the adjuster and spring. Look at the notches on the adjuster.
> Count how many notches are exposed. should be 8-12 notches with your
> low mileage bike. There are about a total of 20 notches on the
> adjuster. When it gets out near the end,17-19 is time to buy another
> cam chain.
>
> Do one cam at a time. Loosen the cam caps. Organize the caps in the
> egg carton. Lift off the chain, and lift out the cam. Now you want to
> know the size of all the shims. A magnetic tool does a good job of
> lifting out the shim and bucket. I shot of air in the little slot
> between the bucket and shim lifts out the shim easily. Most shims have
> the size etched on the underneath side of the shim.
>
> This post is getting long. Feel free to write back on regular email
> for more details.
> Greg
>
>
>

--
Ed J. Indian Harbour Beach, FL 2001 Triumph Trophy 1200 321-795-4387


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Re: Time for Shims

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Sorry Gang;

     Brain Fart! Meant for Private mail!


On 10/24/2016 3:54 PM, Ed Johnson wrote:

--
Ed J. Indian Harbour Beach, FL 2001 Triumph Trophy 1200 321-795-4387

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