Sudden loss of all electricial power

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Sudden loss of all electricial power

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Greeting,

Well after six months of occasional only momentary issues. My electrical
gremlin has now taken over. Now upon turning on the ignition either the
system lights up or is totally dead. When she lights a close examination of
the dash lights shows flickering. And a bump of the starter instantly shuts
the entire system down. And by instantly I mean at the first instant the
solenoid coil receives juice. You can hear an slight click and it drops out
before enough current flows to clap the contacts closed.  Unfortunately my
first suspect is the ignition key switch contacts. But that is just a
quess. I was hoping it was an issue with the setup relay. Which I just
pulled out to examine. I've now concluded it picks up when the ignition
decides to engage.

I wonder now it the drop in temperature has played into causing this to
suddenly get worse. Which again leads me back to the rotating ignition
switch. Perhaps the contraction with temperature is the catalyst.

What is the best and safest cleaner/ contact enhancer to flush it out with?
Also does this assembly allow drainage out the bottom. I'm assuming it does
since it would fill up with water without such.

Next step is to examine the battery and ground contacts. Which I doubt are
related as I just reworked them recently.

Have any of you guys had the ignition switch fail? If so what were the
symptoms. I hate to even get into it but how much trouble is it to replace
this contact set?

This is enough to motivate me to get a second bike. Especially during this
time of year..

Enjoy the ride!

Samuel
96 BBBB PB
New Orleans
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Re: Sudden loss of all electricial power

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Samuel

I would definitely suspect a intermittent earthing problem, it has all the hallmarks of a connection breaking down. How about running some supplementary earth cables to the circuits to check it out

Regards
Ivor
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Re: Sudden loss of all electricial power

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Ivor,

Well it turned into one of my twice yearly electrical maintenance days. I
ended up flushing out the ignition mechanism with denatured alcohol. And
pulling all the relays and polishing the rust off the prongs with a dremel
and a brass brush. And basically treating everything with deoxit. Same for
all the plug in multipin header connectors. Then moved back to the battery
area. Ohmed out the main ground cable and found it to be abnormally high.
Removed the beast and cut it open to discover something has eaten it up
internally at about the mid point. So I replaced the cable and shes as good
as new. And now starts better than ever.

The weather is near perfect and I'm heading out in an hour to meet for a
group ride. Hope everybody has a fantastic weekend!

Samuel
On Nov 12, 2016 10:34 AM, "IVOR COLLINS [hidden email]
[TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi Samuel
>
> I would definitely suspect a intermittent earthing problem, it has all the
> hallmarks of a connection breaking down. How about running some
> supplementary earth cables to the circuits to check it out
>
> Regards
> Ivor
>
> ------------------------------
> * From: * Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] <
> [hidden email]>;
> * To: * <[hidden email]>;
> * Subject: * [TriumphTrophy] Sudden loss of all electricial power
> * Sent: * Sat, Nov 12, 2016 3:06:52 PM
>
>
>
> Greeting,
>
> Well after six months of occasional only momentary issues. My electrical
> gremlin has now taken over. Now upon turning on the ignition either the
> system lights up or is totally dead. When she lights a close examination of
> the dash lights shows flickering. And a bump of the starter instantly shuts
> the entire system down. And by instantly I mean at the first instant the
> solenoid coil receives juice. You can hear an slight click and it drops out
> before enough current flows to clap the contacts closed.  Unfortunately my
> first suspect is the ignition key switch contacts. But that is just a
> quess. I was hoping it was an issue with the setup relay. Which I just
> pulled out to examine. I've now concluded it picks up when the ignition
> decides to engage.
>
> I wonder now it the drop in temperature has played into causing this to
> suddenly get worse. Which again leads me back to the rotating ignition
> switch. Perhaps the contraction with temperature is the catalyst.
>
> What is the best and safest cleaner/ contact enhancer to flush it out
> with? Also does this assembly allow drainage out the bottom. I'm assuming
> it does since it would fill up with water without such.
>
> Next step is to examine the battery and ground contacts. Which I doubt are
> related as I just reworked them recently.
>
> Have any of you guys had the ignition switch fail? If so what were the
> symptoms. I hate to even get into it but how much trouble is it to replace
> this contact set?
>
> This is enough to motivate me to get a second bike. Especially during this
> time of year..
>
> Enjoy the ride!
>
> Samuel
> 96 BBBB PB
> New Orleans
>
>
>
>
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Re: Sudden loss of all electricial power

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Samuel,
I'm sure you've done this, but check the voltage on your battery when you hit the starter button.  That's similar to the behavior that my bike gave when it lost a cell in the battery.
- Dave

 
      From: "Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 10:06 AM
 Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Sudden loss of all electricial power
   
    Greeting,Well after six months of occasional only momentary issues. My electrical gremlin has now taken over. Now upon turning on the ignition either the system lights up or is totally dead. When she lights a close examination of the dash lights shows flickering. And a bump of the starter instantly shuts the entire system down. And by instantly I mean at the first instant the solenoid coil receives juice. You can hear an slight click and it drops out before enough current flows to clap the contacts closed.  Unfortunately my first suspect is the ignition key switch contacts. But that is just a quess. I was hoping it was an issue with the setup relay. Which I just pulled out to examine. I've now concluded it picks up when the ignition decides to engage.I wonder now it the drop in temperature has played into causing this to suddenly get worse. Which again leads me back to the rotating ignition switch. Perhaps the contraction with temperature is the catalyst.What is the best and safest cleaner/ contact enhancer to flush it out with? Also does this assembly allow drainage out the bottom. I'm assuming it does since it would fill up with water without such.Next step is to examine the battery and ground contacts. Which I doubt are related as I just reworked them recently. Have any of you guys had the ignition switch fail? If so what were the symptoms. I hate to even get into it but how much trouble is it to replace this contact set?This is enough to motivate me to get a second bike. Especially during this time of year..Enjoy the ride!Samuel
96 BBBB PB
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Re: Sudden loss of all electricial power

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
I am not an electrical engineer but it occurs to me that if it wouldn't be
too difficult to prevent the headlight from coming on while engaging the
starter motor but instead have it come on once ignition is achieved, this
could diminish the challenge of long sitting steads.  I'm not sure if it
can be automatic, in which event perhaps a toggle switch so we could still
comply with mandated lights on laws.

Tom
96 BBB
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Re: Sudden loss of all electricial power

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list

   
It's not difficult to make happen...what is troublesome to navigate are DOT regulations. The assumption IS: everyone riding a bike can't be trusted to operate a switch.
Example,  how many cars (some very expensive) do you see on the road where even brand new, the turn signal indicators fail to operate ?
DOT regulations assume the problem is the short circuit between the seat and switch.
Bob Clark


Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: "Thomas Pritchard [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
Date: 11/16/16  7:16 AM  (GMT-05:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Sudden loss of all electricial power


 



 


   
     
     
      I am not an electrical engineer but it occurs to me that if it wouldn't be too difficult to prevent the headlight from coming on while engaging the starter motor but instead have it come on once ignition is achieved, this could diminish the challenge of long sitting steads.  I'm not sure if it can be automatic, in which event perhaps a toggle switch so we could still comply with mandated lights on laws.

Tom
96 BBB



   
     

   
   


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Re: Sudden loss of all electricial power

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Tom, Triumph makes a small wiring harness that cuts out the headlights when the starter motor is engaged. Your bike should have it. There is also a relay that plugs into the harness. Sometimes you can find them on Ebay. But then most dismantling shops don't know what the harness does and they don't know how to label it. http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/triumph-harness-twin-light-cut-out-t2500167-part.html http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/triumph-harness-twin-light-cut-out-t2500167-part.html

 T2501705 Triumph Relay, Change Over $10.73 - 2WheelPros http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/triumph-relay-change-over-t2501705-part.html 
 
 http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/triumph-relay-change-over-t2501705-part.html 
 
 T2501705 Triumph Relay, Change Over $10.73 - 2Wh... http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/triumph-relay-change-over-t2501705-part.html Triumph Relay, Change Over (T2501705) is used in Electrical Equipment assembly for 2004 Triumph Daytona 600 & 650, Electrical Equipment assembly for 200...
 
 
 
 View on www.2wheelpros.com http://www.2wheelpros.com/oem-parts/triumph-relay-change-over-t2501705-part.html 
 Preview by Yahoo
 
 
 Greg Andrews
 '96 900 BRG
 107,000 smiles


 

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Re: Sudden loss of all electricial power

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In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
It’s amazing that they don’t use a load dump relay, as i think everybody does now. I ran a hard wired switch, then bought the "European RT-Switchgear". I ordered mine from a shop in England, but it turns our your regular shop can get it in. It’s really a clean way to do it, plus then you get another switch position, that will let you run your "Parking-Lite", for riding in the daytime. That is an especially good thing if you are running an electric vest or ?. You might try cleaning up the contacts in the Rt hand switch-gear (Run-sw).
 Kindest regards,
   Poppa Jack






> On Nov 16, 2016, at 5:26 AM, APSLLP [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> It's not difficult to make happen...what is troublesome to navigate are DOT regulations. The assumption IS: everyone riding a bike can't be trusted to operate a switch.
>
> Example,  how many cars (some very expensive) do you see on the road where even brand new, the turn signal indicators fail to operate ?
>
> DOT regulations assume the problem is the short circuit between the seat and switch.
>
> Bob Clark
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: "Thomas Pritchard [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]> [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
> Date: 11/16/16 7:16 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
> Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Sudden loss of all electricial power
>
>  
>
> I am not an electrical engineer but it occurs to me that if it wouldn't be too difficult to prevent the headlight from coming on while engaging the starter motor but instead have it come on once ignition is achieved, this could diminish the challenge of long sitting steads.  I'm not sure if it can be automatic, in which event perhaps a toggle switch so we could still comply with mandated lights on laws.
>
> Tom
> 96 BBB
>
>
>

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