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Saving tires [1 Attachment]

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hey fellas,

Well I sucked up a 5/16" x 2 1/2" machine bolt. In my new pilot 4 trail
rear tire. Unfortunately this has happened on my last two new rears.
Question is can this safely be patched? Or do I just reinstall the tube I
just removed? For the first time I was enjoying even tire wear with the
balance beads in play.

Samuel
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Re: Saving tires

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hmmm, I'm not an expert, but I'd say this...
If I weren't ready to write-off the $175 tire...
Patch for structural integrity using a radial patch.
A tube shouldn't be necessary, and might impact the speed rating of the tire due to head buildup.
This might be a really bad idea though, and I've never tried it.  My Michelin Pilot Road 3 rear tire with a hole is sitting on my garage floor, holding my wheel and MP4-GT off the concrete.
- Dave
 
      From: "Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 10:00 PM
 Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Saving tires [1 Attachment]
   
    [Attachment(s) from Samuel Crider included below] Hey fellas,Well I sucked up a 5/16" x 2 1/2" machine bolt. In my new pilot 4 trail rear tire. Unfortunately this has happened on my last two new rears. Question is can this safely be patched? Or do I just reinstall the tube I just removed? For the first time I was enjoying even tire wear with the balance beads in play.Samuel  #yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048 -- #yiv0782476048ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048ygrp-mkp #yiv0782476048hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048ygrp-mkp #yiv0782476048ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048ygrp-mkp .yiv0782476048ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048ygrp-mkp .yiv0782476048ad p {margin:0;}#yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048ygrp-mkp .yiv0782476048ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048ygrp-sponsor #yiv0782476048ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048ygrp-sponsor #yiv0782476048ygrp-lc #yiv0782476048hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv0782476048 #yiv0782476048ygrp-sponsor 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Re: Saving tires

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Samuel, I used to work in the shop at Western Auto. I mostly did tire installations and repair. We used patches on the inside and didn't have anybody come back saying the patch didn't hold. Recently I had my car tire repaired. Now the patches have a built in plug. That should do a good fix. The car tire shops probably won't take the tire off your rim, but they can fix it if you just take the tire in.
 Greg
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Re: Saving tires

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Hey Samuel.
  Well , because it's on the rear you might just put a good patch "Inside the tire" over the hole, and install a new tube. I've run a lot of tires on the back that way. UNTIL, I learned about making a "Nail Flap" ( a 1/4 inch thick rectangle of leather, about 7"X9" wide.) I punch 5-6 1/4" holes in a straight line across the narrow end maybe 1 1/2" from the edge, and zip-tie it a bit loosely to dangle in front of that rear tire. The front tire sets it up, but that heavy leather flap will slap road hazards out before they can.....(wait for it!!!), nail that rear tire! I've been running one since 1989, and no more rear flats. The big worry is that the tire and tube will overheat, and fail. Not likely on a tubeless. I have patched a lot of tubeless rear tires, and didn't use a tube. I just did the inside patch very carefully. I see it's in the center. I wouldn't run a plug like that very long, but I'd really do a good job correctly installing a nice big patch. Rough it up real well, (I use a drill motor, and a steel rotating brush, clean it up with alcohol, let it dry totally, patch it. and get on down the road. I'll catch hell from Bob for the idea, but I'd use it anyhow. If this had gone into the sidewall, I would take it back to the place I got it and see if the manufacturer has a "Road Hazard" warrantee, where they "prorate the tire (measure the tread depth) according to the amount of wear you've used. I grew up in the Arizona desert heat, and even with that, I haven't ever had a patch fail. There are better and worse patches, so use a good name brand like "Camel", or ? As I have claimed many times folks, make a "Nail Flap" out of any flexible, heavy, and tough material you can find. They don't add style points to some guys, but you won't be sitting on the side of the road with a flat from any of the usual suspects! I've used them on my last four bikes, and for twenty years on my Trophy, and have not had a rear flat (knock wood)!
 Kindest regards,
   Poppa Jack
On Jun 27, 2015, at 7:00 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:

> [Attachment(s) from Samuel Crider included below]
>
> Hey fellas,
>
> Well I sucked up a 5/16" x 2 1/2" machine bolt. In my new pilot 4 trail rear tire. Unfortunately this has happened on my last two new rears. Question is can this safely be patched? Or do I just reinstall the tube I just removed? For the first time I was enjoying even tire wear with the balance beads in play.
>
> Samuel
>
>
>

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Re: Saving tires

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Jack,
I'm trying to picture it.  Do you have any photos that you can post?
- Dave
 
      From: "Jack Byers [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:58 AM
 Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Saving tires
   
    Hey Samuel.   Well , because it's on the rear you might just put a good patch "Inside the tire" over the hole, and install a new tube. I've run a lot of tires on the back that way. UNTIL, I learned about making a "Nail Flap" ( a 1/4 inch thick rectangle of leather, about 7"X9" wide.) I punch 5-6 1/4" holes in a straight line across the narrow end maybe 1 1/2" from the edge, and zip-tie it a bit loosely to dangle in front of that rear tire. The front tire sets it up, but that heavy leather flap will slap road hazards out before they can.....(wait for it!!!), nail that rear tire! I've been running one since 1989, and no more rear flats. The big worry is that the tire and tube will overheat, and fail. Not likely on a tubeless. I have patched a lot of tubeless rear tires, and didn't use a tube. I just did the inside patch very carefully. I see it's in the center. I wouldn't run a plug like that very long, but I'd really do a good job correctly installing a nice big patch. Rough it up real well, (I use a drill motor, and a steel rotating brush, clean it up with alcohol, let it dry totally, patch it. and get on down the road. I'll catch hell from Bob for the idea, but I'd use it anyhow. If this had gone into the sidewall, I would take it back to the place I got it and see if the manufacturer has a "Road Hazard" warrantee, where they "prorate the tire (measure the tread depth) according to the amount of wear you've used. I grew up in the Arizona desert heat, and even with that, I haven't ever had a patch fail. There are better and worse patches, so use a good name brand like "Camel", or ? As I have claimed many times folks, make a "Nail Flap" out of any flexible, heavy, and tough material you can find. They don't add style points to some guys, but you won't be sitting on the side of the road with a flat from any of the usual suspects! I've used them on my last four bikes, and for twenty years on my Trophy, and have not had a rear flat (knock wood)! Kindest regards,   Poppa Jack
On Jun 27, 2015, at 7:00 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:

    
Hey fellas,Well I sucked up a 5/16" x 2 1/2" machine bolt. In my new pilot 4 trail rear tire. Unfortunately this has happened on my last two new rears. Question is can this safely be patched? Or do I just reinstall the tube I just removed? For the first time I was enjoying even tire wear with the balance beads in play.Samuel
 

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Re: Saving tires

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hey Dave,
 I'm sorry, but I'm not very good with computer stuff. I don't know how to do it . But, I can help you with words. It is so simple, pics won't be necessary. Take out a clean sheet of white paper, a ruler, a paper punch, and a pencil. Okay, here we go: with the ruler, measure down the long edge 11/2 inch, and at that point fold the top of the paper down to that spot. Now measure across that folded edge 7 inches exactly, and mark that point with the pencil, then do the same thing across the singular (non-folded) bottom edge, the same way. Now draw a vertical line down the side of the paper. Then cut off that thin edge of the paper. So at this point you should have a piece of paper that is 7 inches wide by 10 inches long with a 11/2 inch fold along the top edge. With you paper punch in hand, carefully approximate the center of that folded edge, measure down from the top edge 3/4 inch, and punch a hole. Then punch two more holes along the 3/4 inch line the first hole was punched, leaving the outer holes from the center, in from the outer edge 11/4 inches. What you have now is a "template" to use on a piece of heavy 1/4" leather, or other heavy flexible material sheet. Cut the leather into the size of the paper rectangle. Mark off the now 10 holes on the leather, and with a punch, make those ten holes, fold the leather so it is shaped like the paper template (5 holes along the top). Finally, with 5 heavy "zip-ties" attach the flap to the centerstand cross-member, so that it will just hit the ground in front of the rear tire tread. Then replace all 5 zip-ties every 2 years or so, and the whole "Poppa Jax Nail Flap", when it gets too short to hit the ground, and drag a little. Now if you successfully get this all together, would you please take a picture, and post it? I like to spray paint the flap black, because it really bothers one of  my life long riding partners. I've ridden behind him thousands of miles, and I don't even notice his nail flap? He didn't paint his even. I've thought about making a small online business of my exclusive flap design, in black with reflective tape chevrons fore and aft. It would really show up at nite in headlites. What do you think ? I can make and mount one in about 5 minutes, or about as long as it will take someone to read this. I have used all kinds of stuff for these, like the front shin of an old pair of engineer boots, truck inner-tubes, Momma Jack's old diaphragms, the list could go on for ever. Let me know if this gets you there, and if not I'll figure out another way.
 Kindest regards always,
   Poppa Jack
On Jun 28, 2015, at 6:05 AM, David Webb [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:

>
> Hi Jack,
>
> I'm trying to picture it.  Do you have any photos that you can post?
>
> - Dave
>
> From: "Jack Byers [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Saving tires
>
>  
> Hey Samuel.
>   Well , because it's on the rear you might just put a good patch "Inside the tire" over the hole, and install a new tube. I've run a lot of tires on the back that way. UNTIL, I learned about making a "Nail Flap" ( a 1/4 inch thick rectangle of leather, about 7"X9" wide.) I punch 5-6 1/4" holes in a straight line across the narrow end maybe 1 1/2" from the edge, and zip-tie it a bit loosely to dangle in front of that rear tire. The front tire sets it up, but that heavy leather flap will slap road hazards out before they can.....(wait for it!!!), nail that rear tire! I've been running one since 1989, and no more rear flats. The big worry is that the tire and tube will overheat, and fail. Not likely on a tubeless. I have patched a lot of tubeless rear tires, and didn't use a tube. I just did the inside patch very carefully. I see it's in the center. I wouldn't run a plug like that very long, but I'd really do a good job correctly installing a nice big patch. Rough it up real well, (I use a drill motor, and a steel rotating brush, clean it up with alcohol, let it dry totally, patch it. and get on down the road. I'll catch hell from Bob for the idea, but I'd use it anyhow. If this had gone into the sidewall, I would take it back to the place I got it and see if the manufacturer has a "Road Hazard" warrantee, where they "prorate the tire (measure the tread depth) according to the amount of wear you've used. I grew up in the Arizona desert heat, and even with that, I haven't ever had a patch fail. There are better and worse patches, so use a good name brand like "Camel", or ? As I have claimed many times folks, make a "Nail Flap" out of any flexible, heavy, and tough material you can find. They don't add style points to some guys, but you won't be sitting on the side of the road with a flat from any of the usual suspects! I've used them on my last four bikes, and for twenty years on my Trophy, and have not had a rear flat (knock wood)!
>  Kindest regards! ,
>    Poppa Jack
> On Jun 27, 2015, at 7:00 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>
>>  
>>
>> Hey fellas,
>> Well I sucked up a 5/16" x 2 1/2" machine bolt. In my new pilot 4 trail rear tire. Unfortunately this has happened on my last two new rears. Question is can this safely be patched? Or do I just reinstall the tube I just removed? For the first time I was enjoying even tire wear with the balance beads in play.
>> Samuel
>>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: Saving tires

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Great info Jack! Back when I was riding vintage British 531 bicycles. I had
a neat gizmo that tracked just above the rear tire. It would only allow one
pass before dislodging what ever was sucked up. At least that was the
general idea. And it did seem to reduce the rear flats by at least 50%. I'm
definitely going to implement your design. As a matter of fact there's a
diy leather shop not too far away.

Thanks,
Samuel
On Jun 28, 2015 12:43 PM, "Jack Byers [hidden email]
[TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hey Dave,
>  I'm sorry, but I'm not very good with computer stuff. I don't know how to
> do it . But, I can help you with words. It is so simple, pics won't be
> necessary. Take out a clean sheet of white paper, a ruler, a paper punch,
> and a pencil. Okay, here we go: with the ruler, measure down the long edge
> 11/2 inch, and at that point fold the top of the paper down to that spot.
> Now measure across that folded edge 7 inches exactly, and mark that point
> with the pencil, then do the same thing across the singular (non-folded)
> bottom edge, the same way. Now draw a vertical line down the side of the
> paper. Then cut off that thin edge of the paper. So at this point you
> should have a piece of paper that is 7 inches wide by 10 inches long with a
> 11/2 inch fold along the top edge. With you paper punch in hand, carefully
> approximate the center of that folded edge, measure down from the top edge
> 3/4 inch, and punch a hole. Then punch two more holes along the 3/4 inch
> line the first hole was punched, leaving the outer holes from the center,
> in from the outer edge 11/4 inches. What you have now is a "template" to
> use on a piece of heavy 1/4" leather, or other heavy flexible material
> sheet. Cut the leather into the size of the paper rectangle. Mark off the
> now 10 holes on the leather, and with a punch, make those ten holes, fold
> the leather so it is shaped like the paper template (5 holes along the
> top). Finally, with 5 heavy "zip-ties" attach the flap to the centerstand
> cross-member, so that it will just hit the ground in front of the rear tire
> tread. Then replace all 5 zip-ties every 2 years or so, and the whole
> "Poppa Jax Nail Flap", when it gets too short to hit the ground, and drag a
> little. Now if you successfully get this all together, would you please
> take a picture, and post it? I like to spray paint the flap black, because
> it really bothers one of  my life long riding partners. I've ridden behind
> him thousands of miles, and I don't even notice his nail flap? He didn't
> paint his even. I've thought about making a small online business of my
> exclusive flap design, in black with reflective tape chevrons fore and aft.
> It would really show up at nite in headlites. What do you think ? I can
> make and mount one in about 5 minutes, or about as long as it will take
> someone to read this. I have used all kinds of stuff for these, like the
> front shin of an old pair of engineer boots, truck inner-tubes, Momma
> Jack's old diaphragms, the list could go on for ever. Let me know if this
> gets you there, and if not I'll figure out another way.
>  Kindest regards always,
>    Poppa Jack
> On Jun 28, 2015, at 6:05 AM, David Webb [hidden email]
> [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi Jack,
>
> I'm trying to picture it.  Do you have any photos that you can post?
>
> - Dave
>
>   ------------------------------
>  *From:* "Jack Byers [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
> [hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:58 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [TriumphTrophy] Saving tires
>
>
>  Hey Samuel.
>   Well , because it's on the rear you might just put a good patch "Inside
> the tire" over the hole, and install a new tube. I've run a lot of tires on
> the back that way. UNTIL, I learned about making a "Nail Flap" ( a 1/4 inch
> thick rectangle of leather, about 7"X9" wide.) I punch 5-6 1/4" holes in a
> straight line across the narrow end maybe 1 1/2" from the edge, and zip-tie
> it a bit loosely to dangle in front of that rear tire. The front tire sets
> it up, but that heavy leather flap will slap road hazards out before they
> can.....(wait for it!!!), nail that rear tire! I've been running one since
> 1989, and no more rear flats. The big worry is that the tire and tube will
> overheat, and fail. Not likely on a tubeless. I have patched a lot of
> tubeless rear tires, and didn't use a tube. I just did the inside patch
> very carefully. I see it's in the center. I wouldn't run a plug like that
> very long, but I'd really do a good job correctly installing a nice big
> patch. Rough it up real well, (I use a drill motor, and a steel rotating
> brush, clean it up with alcohol, let it dry totally, patch it. and get on
> down the road. I'll catch hell from Bob for the idea, but I'd use it
> anyhow. If this had gone into the sidewall, I would take it back to the
> place I got it and see if the manufacturer has a "Road Hazard" warrantee,
> where they "prorate the tire (measure the tread depth) according to the
> amount of wear you've used. I grew up in the Arizona desert heat, and even
> with that, I haven't ever had a patch fail. There are better and worse
> patches, so use a good name brand like "Camel", or ? As I have claimed many
> times folks, make a "Nail Flap" out of any flexible, heavy, and tough
> material you can find. They don't add style points to some guys, but you
> won't be sitting on the side of the road with a flat from any of the usual
> suspects! I've used them on my last four bikes, and for twenty years on my
> Trophy, and have not had a rear flat (knock wood)!
>  Kindest regards! ,
>    Poppa Jack
> On Jun 27, 2015, at 7:00 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email]
> [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>
>
>
> Hey fellas,
> Well I sucked up a 5/16" x 2 1/2" machine bolt. In my new pilot 4 trail
> rear tire. Unfortunately this has happened on my last two new rears.
> Question is can this safely be patched? Or do I just reinstall the tube I
> just removed? For the first time I was enjoying even tire wear with the
> balance beads in play.
> Samuel
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Saving tires

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hey Samuel,
   I always just spray paint it with whatever kind of black paint I have. They do get sort of dirty hanging down there. If you have any Leather Hobby shops around, you can usually get scrap leather there very cheaply. It just has to be sorta thick and heavy to do the job of knocking road debris off to the side of that expensive rear tire.
  Poppa
On Jun 28, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:

>
> Great info Jack! Back when I was riding vintage British 531 bicycles. I had a neat gizmo that tracked just above the rear tire. It would only allow one pass before dislodging what ever was sucked up. At least that was the general idea. And it did seem to reduce the rear flats by at least 50%. I'm definitely going to implement your design. As a matter of fact there's a diy leather shop not too far away.
>
> Thanks,
> Samuel
>
> On Jun 28, 2015 12:43 PM, "Jack Byers [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Dave,
>  I'm sorry, but I'm not very good with computer stuff. I don't know how to do it . But, I can help you with words. It is so simple, pics won't be necessary. Take out a clean sheet of white paper, a ruler, a paper punch, and a pencil. Okay, here we go: with the ruler, measure down the long edge 11/2 inch, and at that point fold the top of the paper down to that spot. Now measure across that folded edge 7 inches exactly, and mark that point with the pencil, then do the same thing across the singular (non-folded) bottom edge, the same way. Now draw a vertical line down the side of the paper. Then cut off that thin edge of the paper. So at this point you should have a piece of paper that is 7 inches wide by 10 inches long with a 11/2 inch fold along the top edge. With you paper punch in hand, carefully approximate the center of that folded edge, measure down from the top edge 3/4 inch, and punch a hole. Then punch two more holes along the 3/4 inch line the first hole was punched, leaving the outer holes from the center, in from the outer edge 11/4 inches. What you have now is a "template" to use on a piece of heavy 1/4" leather, or other heavy flexible material sheet. Cut the leather into the size of the paper rectangle. Mark off the now 10 holes on the leather, and with a punch, make those ten holes, fold the leather so it is shaped like the paper template (5 holes along the top). Finally, with 5 heavy "zip-ties" attach the flap to the centerstand cross-member, so that it will just hit the ground in front of the rear tire tread. Then replace all 5 zip-ties every 2 years or so, and the whole "Poppa Jax Nail Flap", when it gets too short to hit the ground, and drag a little. Now if you successfully get this all together, would you please take a picture, and post it? I like to spray paint the flap black, because it really bothers one of  my life long riding partners. I've ridden behind him thousands of miles, and I don't even notice his nail flap? He didn't paint his even. I've thought about making a small online business of my exclusive flap design, in black with reflective tape chevrons fore and aft. It would really show up at nite in headlites. What do you think ? I can make and mount one in about 5 minutes, or about as long as it will take someone to read this. I have used all kinds of stuff for these, like the front shin of an old pair of engineer boots, truck inner-tubes, Momma Jack's old diaphragms, the list could go on for ever. Let me know if this gets you there, and if not I'll figure out another way.
>  Kindest regards always,
>    Poppa Jack
> On Jun 28, 2015, at 6:05 AM, David Webb [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>
>>  
>>
>> Hi Jack,
>>
>> I'm trying to picture it.  Do you have any photos that you can post?
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>> From: "Jack Byers [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Saving tires
>>
>>  
>> Hey Samuel.
>>   Well , because it's on the rear you might just put a good patch "Inside the tire" over the hole, and install a new tube. I've run a lot of tires on the back that way. UNTIL, I learned about making a "Nail Flap" ( a 1/4 inch thick rectangle of leather, about 7"X9" wide.) I punch 5-6 1/4" holes in a straight line across the narrow end maybe 1 1/2" from the edge, and zip-tie it a bit loosely to dangle in front of that rear tire. The front tire sets it up, but that heavy leather flap will slap road hazards out before they can.....(wait for it!!!), nail that rear tire! I've been running one since 1989, and no more rear flats. The big worry is that the tire and tube will overheat, and fail. Not likely on a tubeless. I have patched a lot of tubeless rear tires, and didn't use a tube. I just did the inside patch very carefully. I see it's in the center. I wouldn't run a plug like that very long, but I'd really do a good job correctly installing a nice big patch. Rough it up real well, (I use a drill motor, and a steel rotating brush, clean it up with alcohol, let it dry totally, patch it. and get on down the road. I'll catch hell from Bob for the idea, but I'd use it anyhow. If this had gone into the sidewall, I would take it back to the place I got it and see if the manufacturer has a "Road Hazard" warrantee, where they "prorate the tire (measure the tread depth) according to the amount of wear you've used. I grew up in the Arizona desert heat, and even with that, I haven't ever had a patch fail. There are better and worse patches, so use a good name brand like "Camel", or ? As I have claimed many times folks, make a "Nail Flap" out of any flexible, heavy, and tough material you can find. They don't add style points to some guys, but you won't be sitting on the side of the road with a flat from any of the usual suspects! I've used them on my last four bikes, and for twenty years on my Trophy, and have not had a rear flat (knock wood)!
>>  Kindest regards! ,
>>    Poppa Jack
>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 7:00 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Hey fellas,
>>> Well I sucked up a 5/16" x 2 1/2" machine bolt. In my new pilot 4 trail rear tire. Unfortunately this has happened on my last two new rears. Question is can this safely be patched? Or do I just reinstall the tube I just removed? For the first time I was enjoying even tire wear with the balance beads in play.
>>> Samuel
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>

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|

Re: Saving tires

Triumph Trophy mailing list
There's a Tandy about 8mi away. I'm definitely going to have to do
something. The sensation I had was that the front hit the bolt first. There
by setting up the rear plunge. I briefly noticed a total of 4 bolts on the
road. All covering the entire lane and was unable to make any emergency
adjustments. I'm thinking of even installing a flap on both the front and
rear. The streets here are just terrible. I routinely have to plug tires on
my vehicles. Once had 10 self tapping screws in my beloved civics tires at
once. Which was a hell of a ordeal after working all night. Only to get off
at 5am with all fours on the rims.

Fwiw, today the wrench at the local shop showed me a combo plug/patch
example he had on hand. He says he installs these all the time on big
cruisers and goldwings. And has never had a return issue since he started
using them. So, I made a veeline to the local napa warehouse. Which sell
these in 3sizes for -$2ea. I'm giving the large a shot instead of the tube.
Plus, increasing the balance beads by the plug weight. We shall see..

Samuel
On Jun 30, 2015 9:15 AM, "Jack Byers [hidden email]
[TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hey Samuel,
>    I always just spray paint it with whatever kind of black paint I have.
> They do get sort of dirty hanging down there. If you have any Leather Hobby
> shops around, you can usually get scrap leather there very cheaply. It just
> has to be sorta thick and heavy to do the job of knocking road debris off
> to the side of that expensive rear tire.
>   Poppa
> On Jun 28, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email]
> [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>
>
>
> Great info Jack! Back when I was riding vintage British 531 bicycles. I
> had a neat gizmo that tracked just above the rear tire. It would only allow
> one pass before dislodging what ever was sucked up. At least that was the
> general idea. And it did seem to reduce the rear flats by at least 50%. I'm
> definitely going to implement your design. As a matter of fact there's a
> diy leather shop not too far away.
>
> Thanks,
> Samuel
> On Jun 28, 2015 12:43 PM, "Jack Byers [hidden email]
> [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Hey Dave,
>>  I'm sorry, but I'm not very good with computer stuff. I don't know how
>> to do it . But, I can help you with words. It is so simple, pics won't be
>> necessary. Take out a clean sheet of white paper, a ruler, a paper punch,
>> and a pencil. Okay, here we go: with the ruler, measure down the long edge
>> 11/2 inch, and at that point fold the top of the paper down to that spot.
>> Now measure across that folded edge 7 inches exactly, and mark that point
>> with the pencil, then do the same thing across the singular (non-folded)
>> bottom edge, the same way. Now draw a vertical line down the side of the
>> paper. Then cut off that thin edge of the paper. So at this point you
>> should have a piece of paper that is 7 inches wide by 10 inches long with a
>> 11/2 inch fold along the top edge. With you paper punch in hand, carefully
>> approximate the center of that folded edge, measure down from the top edge
>> 3/4 inch, and punch a hole. Then punch two more holes along the 3/4 inch
>> line the first hole was punched, leaving the outer holes from the center,
>> in from the outer edge 11/4 inches. What you have now is a "template" to
>> use on a piece of heavy 1/4" leather, or other heavy flexible material
>> sheet. Cut the leather into the size of the paper rectangle. Mark off the
>> now 10 holes on the leather, and with a punch, make those ten holes, fold
>> the leather so it is shaped like the paper template (5 holes along the
>> top). Finally, with 5 heavy "zip-ties" attach the flap to the centerstand
>> cross-member, so that it will just hit the ground in front of the rear tire
>> tread. Then replace all 5 zip-ties every 2 years or so, and the whole
>> "Poppa Jax Nail Flap", when it gets too short to hit the ground, and drag a
>> little. Now if you successfully get this all together, would you please
>> take a picture, and post it? I like to spray paint the flap black, because
>> it really bothers one of  my life long riding partners. I've ridden behind
>> him thousands of miles, and I don't even notice his nail flap? He didn't
>> paint his even. I've thought about making a small online business of my
>> exclusive flap design, in black with reflective tape chevrons fore and aft.
>> It would really show up at nite in headlites. What do you think ? I can
>> make and mount one in about 5 minutes, or about as long as it will take
>> someone to read this. I have used all kinds of stuff for these, like the
>> front shin of an old pair of engineer boots, truck inner-tubes, Momma
>> Jack's old diaphragms, the list could go on for ever. Let me know if this
>> gets you there, and if not I'll figure out another way.
>>  Kindest regards always,
>>    Poppa Jack
>> On Jun 28, 2015, at 6:05 AM, David Webb [hidden email]
>> [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jack,
>>
>> I'm trying to picture it.  Do you have any photos that you can post?
>>
>> - Dave
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>>  *From:* "Jack Byers [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
>> [hidden email]>
>> *To:* [hidden email]
>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:58 AM
>> *Subject:* Re: [TriumphTrophy] Saving tires
>>
>>
>>  Hey Samuel.
>>   Well , because it's on the rear you might just put a good patch "Inside
>> the tire" over the hole, and install a new tube. I've run a lot of tires on
>> the back that way. UNTIL, I learned about making a "Nail Flap" ( a 1/4 inch
>> thick rectangle of leather, about 7"X9" wide.) I punch 5-6 1/4" holes in a
>> straight line across the narrow end maybe 1 1/2" from the edge, and zip-tie
>> it a bit loosely to dangle in front of that rear tire. The front tire sets
>> it up, but that heavy leather flap will slap road hazards out before they
>> can.....(wait for it!!!), nail that rear tire! I've been running one since
>> 1989, and no more rear flats. The big worry is that the tire and tube will
>> overheat, and fail. Not likely on a tubeless. I have patched a lot of
>> tubeless rear tires, and didn't use a tube. I just did the inside patch
>> very carefully. I see it's in the center. I wouldn't run a plug like that
>> very long, but I'd really do a good job correctly installing a nice big
>> patch. Rough it up real well, (I use a drill motor, and a steel rotating
>> brush, clean it up with alcohol, let it dry totally, patch it. and get on
>> down the road. I'll catch hell from Bob for the idea, but I'd use it
>> anyhow. If this had gone into the sidewall, I would take it back to the
>> place I got it and see if the manufacturer has a "Road Hazard" warrantee,
>> where they "prorate the tire (measure the tread depth) according to the
>> amount of wear you've used. I grew up in the Arizona desert heat, and even
>> with that, I haven't ever had a patch fail. There are better and worse
>> patches, so use a good name brand like "Camel", or ? As I have claimed many
>> times folks, make a "Nail Flap" out of any flexible, heavy, and tough
>> material you can find. They don't add style points to some guys, but you
>> won't be sitting on the side of the road with a flat from any of the usual
>> suspects! I've used them on my last four bikes, and for twenty years on my
>> Trophy, and have not had a rear flat (knock wood)!
>>  Kindest regards! ,
>>    Poppa Jack
>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 7:00 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email]
>> [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hey fellas,
>> Well I sucked up a 5/16" x 2 1/2" machine bolt. In my new pilot 4 trail
>> rear tire. Unfortunately this has happened on my last two new rears.
>> Question is can this safely be patched? Or do I just reinstall the tube I
>> just removed? For the first time I was enjoying even tire wear with the
>> balance beads in play.
>> Samuel
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
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|

Re: Saving tires

Triumph Trophy mailing list
I have seen these plug/patches. They seem like a good solution. I never heard of a failure.

 If the cords of the belt in the tire are broken rather than just separated by the object going between them, then I'd call that structural damage and keep to mere normal speeds and keep an eye on the tire for signs of deterioration.
 

 I wouldn't think you'd need any more balance beads. You could add more later through the valve stem if you feel a vibration when riding.
 

 I have a fender extender (about 3" or so), but it really only protects the oil cooler. Another flap hanging off the bottom of it might help the rear tire, but for sure the PoppaJack-Flap would prevent most, if not all, future rear punctures all by itself.
 

 Cheers,
 Glenn
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Re: Saving tires

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hey Samuel,  
 In all the nails I've ever come across, only roofing nails and bent "U" shaped nails, have ever "Nailed" (I love that joke!), a front tire (on street motors), but when I reach "waaaaaayyyy back in my "Olden days", I remember many motorbikes coming out stock with "Mud flaps", being attached on the back edge of the front fender by a 3/4 inch wide piece of flat stock located on the top of the flap on the outside of the fender, held with 3-5 small diameter bolts thru the steel strap, then thru the rubber flap, over the outside of the fender, and nice big flat washers, and self-locking nuts on the inside (done this way to prevent having the rubber flap from catching and not drying it all out, due to exposure to Sun's heat. We were into stripping anything we could do without, i.e. chopped rear fenders as high as we could, often by re-drilling the fender to slide radially forward, which would help allay mud fling on the back and top engine, and exposing the rear of the tire, to fling small rocks at those who follow too near. Hoping to crack their windshield. Then we'd remove that flap on the back edge of the front fender, and like the rear (but backwards), we'd move the front fender, after flaring a little flaring, to the front of the front fender, drilling the necessary holes required to mount the front to look like the job on the back edge of the rear fender. Add a set of "Bates" seats, after cutting down the rider's spring seat (to lower the front seat), and carefully mount the "P-Pad" so it would lean the pretty little passenger in tight enough to keep us cozy warm. The curvilinear shape of the front fender will cause the rubber (or leather) mud flap have a shape similar to the shape of the fender. Made sorta stylin' front mud flap to help keep all that crap off the engine, and radiator. Where are you Samuel ?  I don't think we even have "Tandy's" here in Orange County anymore. Are you in Calif.? Now tossing a little "Vector Theory" here convinces me that the front mud flap might cause that old screw to get two or more front tire flat attempts, by flipping off the front mud flap, directly onto the tread, only to ride around the tire again, essentially risking a flat for the second time, with even more force. Please let me know what you choose to do,and how it works out? On my Trophy, the leather rides touching the ground only about an inch infront of the rear tire. The funny thing about that nail flap, in front of the rear tire is that I learned about it from a riding friend that first saw them on a large number of British cycles, and he managed to question several fellows who had them on their bikes when he was serving in the US Armed services in London. Nobody could say exactly where they got the idea, but back in the early 1960's while stationed there, he got an old Triumph, that had a nice one on it, and he hasn't had a rear flat in all those years since. Some of my pals think it makes no difference, and I've just been lucky. Trust me, I'm never that "Lucky". Put one of these things on your bike for a year, and see for yourself. I showed the "Flap" to many of my friends, but only had a few fellas install one. I thought Greg Andrews would see the wisdom in this set-up, but he's not done it to his bikes, yet. So, I don't think I've impressed him at all. I like to hang one from the cross beam (straight one), with heavy "Zip-Ties" rigged sort of loose, so it has more freedom of motion. I'd like to see ten or twenty of us in the group mount and run these for a full year, and compare those results, with a "Control-Group", of similar sized bikes, and similar number. I think there is little doubt in my mind, what the results would be. Best of luck Amigo! Keep in touch, and post pics please.
 Kindest regards.
   Poppa Jack in Buena Park, Ca,
On Jun 30, 2015, at 10:43 AM, Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:

>
> There's a Tandy about 8mi away. I'm definitely going to have to do something. The sensation I had was that the front hit the bolt first. There by setting up the rear plunge. I briefly noticed a total of 4 bolts on the road. All covering the entire lane and was unable to make any emergency adjustments. I'm thinking of even installing a flap on both the front and rear. The streets here are just terrible. I routinely have to plug tires on my vehicles. Once had 10 self tapping screws in my beloved civics tires at once. Which was a hell of a ordeal after working all night. Only to get off at 5am with all fours on the rims.
>
> Fwiw, today the wrench at the local shop showed me a combo plug/patch example he had on hand. He says he installs these all the time on big cruisers and goldwings. And has never had a return issue since he started using them. So, I made a veeline to the local napa warehouse. Which sell these in 3sizes for -$2ea. I'm giving the large a shot instead of the tube. Plus, increasing the balance beads by the plug weight. We shall see..
>
> Samuel
>
> On Jun 30, 2015 9:15 AM, "Jack Byers [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> Hey Samuel,
>    I always just spray paint it with whatever kind of black paint I have. They do get sort of dirty hanging down there. If you have any Leather Hobby shops around, you can usually get scrap leather there very cheaply. It just has to be sorta thick and heavy to do the job of knocking road debris off to the side of that expensive rear tire.
>   Poppa
> On Jun 28, 2015, at 3:25 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>
>>  
>>
>> Great info Jack! Back when I was riding vintage British 531 bicycles. I had a neat gizmo that tracked just above the rear tire. It would only allow one pass before dislodging what ever was sucked up. At least that was the general idea. And it did seem to reduce the rear flats by at least 50%. I'm definitely going to implement your design. As a matter of fact there's a diy leather shop not too far away.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Samuel
>>
>> On Jun 28, 2015 12:43 PM, "Jack Byers [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hey Dave,
>>  I'm sorry, but I'm not very good with computer stuff. I don't know how to do it . But, I can help you with words. It is so simple, pics won't be necessary. Take out a clean sheet of white paper, a ruler, a paper punch, and a pencil. Okay, here we go: with the ruler, measure down the long edge 11/2 inch, and at that point fold the top of the paper down to that spot. Now measure across that folded edge 7 inches exactly, and mark that point with the pencil, then do the same thing across the singular (non-folded) bottom edge, the same way. Now draw a vertical line down the side of the paper. Then cut off that thin edge of the paper. So at this point you should have a piece of paper that is 7 inches wide by 10 inches long with a 11/2 inch fold along the top edge. With you paper punch in hand, carefully approximate the center of that folded edge, measure down from the top edge 3/4 inch, and punch a hole. Then punch two more holes along the 3/4 inch line the first hole was punched, leaving the outer holes from the center, in from the outer edge 11/4 inches. What you have now is a "template" to use on a piece of heavy 1/4" leather, or other heavy flexible material sheet. Cut the leather into the size of the paper rectangle. Mark off the now 10 holes on the leather, and with a punch, make those ten holes, fold the leather so it is shaped like the paper template (5 holes along the top). Finally, with 5 heavy "zip-ties" attach the flap to the centerstand cross-member, so that it will just hit the ground in front of the rear tire tread. Then replace all 5 zip-ties every 2 years or so, and the whole "Poppa Jax Nail Flap", when it gets too short to hit the ground, and drag a little. Now if you successfully get this all together, would you please take a picture, and post it? I like to spray paint the flap black, because it really bothers one of  my life long riding partners. I've ridden behind him thousands of miles, and I don't even notice his nail flap? He didn't paint his even. I've thought about making a small online business of my exclusive flap design, in black with reflective tape chevrons fore and aft. It would really show up at nite in headlites. What do you think ? I can make and mount one in about 5 minutes, or about as long as it will take someone to read this. I have used all kinds of stuff for these, like the front shin of an old pair of engineer boots, truck inner-tubes, Momma Jack's old diaphragms, the list could go on for ever. Let me know if this gets you there, and if not I'll figure out another way.
>>  Kindest regards always,
>>    Poppa Jack
>> On Jun 28, 2015, at 6:05 AM, David Webb [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> Hi Jack,
>>>
>>> I'm trying to picture it.  Do you have any photos that you can post?
>>>
>>> - Dave
>>>
>>> From: "Jack Byers [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2015 8:58 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Saving tires
>>>
>>>  
>>> Hey Samuel.
>>>   Well , because it's on the rear you might just put a good patch "Inside the tire" over the hole, and install a new tube. I've run a lot of tires on the back that way. UNTIL, I learned about making a "Nail Flap" ( a 1/4 inch thick rectangle of leather, about 7"X9" wide.) I punch 5-6 1/4" holes in a straight line across the narrow end maybe 1 1/2" from the edge, and zip-tie it a bit loosely to dangle in front of that rear tire. The front tire sets it up, but that heavy leather flap will slap road hazards out before they can.....(wait for it!!!), nail that rear tire! I've been running one since 1989, and no more rear flats. The big worry is that the tire and tube will overheat, and fail. Not likely on a tubeless. I have patched a lot of tubeless rear tires, and didn't use a tube. I just did the inside patch very carefully. I see it's in the center. I wouldn't run a plug like that very long, but I'd really do a good job correctly installing a nice big patch. Rough it up real well, (I use a drill motor, and a steel rotating brush, clean it up with alcohol, let it dry totally, patch it. and get on down the road. I'll catch hell from Bob for the idea, but I'd use it anyhow. If this had gone into the sidewall, I would take it back to the place I got it and see if the manufacturer has a "Road Hazard" warrantee, where they "prorate the tire (measure the tread depth) according to the amount of wear you've used. I grew up in the Arizona desert heat, and even with that, I haven't ever had a patch fail. There are better and worse patches, so use a good name brand like "Camel", or ? As I have claimed many times folks, make a "Nail Flap" out of any flexible, heavy, and tough material you can find. They don't add style points to some guys, but you won't be sitting on the side of the road with a flat from any of the usual suspects! I've used them on my last four bikes, and for twenty years on my Trophy, and have not had a rear flat (knock wood)!
>>>  Kindest regards! ,
>>>    Poppa Jack
>>> On Jun 27, 2015, at 7:00 PM, Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] wrote:
>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>> Hey fellas,
>>>> Well I sucked up a 5/16" x 2 1/2" machine bolt. In my new pilot 4 trail rear tire. Unfortunately this has happened on my last two new rears. Question is can this safely be patched? Or do I just reinstall the tube I just removed? For the first time I was enjoying even tire wear with the balance beads in play.
>>>> Samuel
>>>>
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