Electrolysis

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Electrolysis

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi All, I bought a distressed 1200 engine and a good frame months ago. $100 each. I'm in the process of building another bike. I started with the head. The head surface has scaling and pinholes. The machine shop is going to grind and weld in new aluminum where this corrosion damage has occurred, then re-surface it.
 

 This damage is due to electrolysis and the previous owner probably never changed the antifreeze. I think most antifreeze containers say to replace it every two of three years. Most people don't.
 Here a good article about electrolysis and why it happens.
 Greg Andrews
 Electrolysis 101 http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101

 
 
 http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101 
 
 Electrolysis 101 http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101 Electrolysis 101 How to prevent | How to test for electrolysis | How to reverse flush | How to install products Welcome to Vehicle Enhancement Labs information...
 
 
 
 View on www.ve-labs.net http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101 
 Preview by Yahoo
 
 
 

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Re: Electrolysis

Triumph Trophy mailing list
You know, I wonder why there aren't zinc anodes to attach to the insides of radiator caps.
- Dave

 
      From: "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:37 AM
 Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Electrolysis
   
    Hi All, I bought a distressed 1200 engine and a good frame months ago. $100 each. I'm in the process of building another bike. I started with the head. The head surface has scaling and pinholes. The machine shop is going to grind and weld in new aluminum where this corrosion damage has occurred, then re-surface it.
This damage is due to electrolysis and the previous owner probably never changed the antifreeze. I think most antifreeze containers say to replace it every two of three years. Most people don't.Here a good article about electrolysis and why it happens.Greg AndrewsElectrolysis 101
 
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|    |      !   |    |       Electrolysis 101  Electrolysis 101 How to prevent | How to test for electrolysis | How to reverse flush | How to install products Welcome to Vehicle Enhancement Labs information...    |    |
|      View on www.ve-labs.net      |    Preview by Yahoo    |
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Re: Electrolysis

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Good idea on the anode!
On May 25, 2016 2:16 PM, "David Webb [hidden email]
[TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> You know, I wonder why there aren't zinc anodes to attach to the insides
> of radiator caps.
>
> - Dave
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
> [hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:37 AM
> *Subject:* [TriumphTrophy] Electrolysis
>
>
> Hi All, I bought a distressed 1200 engine and a good frame months ago.
> $100 each. I'm in the process of building another bike. I started with
> the head. The head surface has scaling and pinholes. The machine shop is
> going to grind and weld in new aluminum where this corrosion damage has
> occurred, then re-surface it.
>
> This damage is due to electrolysis and the previous owner probably never
> changed the antifreeze. I think most antifreeze containers say to replace
> it every two of three years. Most people don't.
> Here a good article about electrolysis and why it happens.
> Greg Andrews
> Electrolysis 101 <http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101>
> [image: image] <http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101> !
> Electrolysis 101 <http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101>
> Electrolysis 101 How to prevent | How to test for electrolysis | How to
> reverse flush | How to install products Welcome to Vehicle Enhancement Labs
> information...
> View on www.ve-labs.net <http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Electrolysis

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Maybe we are all waiting for someone like you to come up with the idea,
market it, get rich, and then run for president! 8-)


On 5/25/2016 12:32 PM, David Webb [hidden email]
[TriumphTrophy] wrote:

>
>
> You know, I wonder why there aren't zinc anodes to attach to the
> insides of radiator caps.
>
> - Dave
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     *From:* "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]"
>     <[hidden email]>
>     *To:* [hidden email]
>     *Sent:* Wednesday, May 25, 2016 11:37 AM
>     *Subject:* [TriumphTrophy] Electrolysis
>
>     Hi All, I bought a distressed 1200 engine and a good frame months
>     ago. $100 each. I'm in the process of building another bike. I
>     started with the head. The head surface has scaling and pinholes.
>     The machine shop is going to grind and weld in new aluminum where
>     this corrosion damage has occurred, then re-surface it.
>
>     This damage is due to electrolysis and the previous owner probably
>     never changed the antifreeze. I think most antifreeze containers
>     say to replace it every two of three years. Most people don't.
>     Here a good article about electrolysis and why it happens.
>     Greg Andrews
>     Electrolysis 101 <http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101>
>
>
>    
>     image <http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101> !
>    
>    
>     Electrolysis 101 <http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101>
>     Electrolysis 101 How to prevent | How to test for electrolysis |
>     How to reverse flush | How to install products Welcome to Vehicle
>     Enhancement Labs information...
>    
>     View on www.ve-labs.net <http://www.ve-labs.net/electrolysis-101>
>    
>     Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Ed J. Indian Harbour Beach, FL 2001 Triumph Trophy 1200 321-795-4387


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Re: Electrolysis

Triumph Trophy mailing list
They already exist, sorry to burst your bubble (though probably not for every application).

For the past decade or so I've been involved in building Miatas (mx5, Eunous) into Race Cars.  Primarily to rule-sets that allow and prohibit things (obstinately to "contain costs" but that's another story).

Cooling is always a big deal, so step #1 is throw away the stock radiator and put some big beefy monster in there.  Conveniently they make stock replacements that use the same factor rubber isolating hardware.  

However step 2 it all goes sideways.  You seal the radiator to the car to ensure all the air goes through the radiator, not around it.  The best tool for the sealing job?  Aluminum foil tape.  Sticky, Durable, Flexible. Conductive.

After we all did this, about 2 years on, everyone started getting pinhole radiator leaks.  Took a while to figure it out.  Guess what.  Electrolysis.  Which we all caused when we foil tapped them in.  Figuring it out was key, since these were $600 - $800 radiators.

Someone came out with caps with an annoded that dangled from a chain.  I've been away from the game a bit but I see now they make weld on kits where you just drill a hole in the radiator and buzz on a bushing with a screw in anode, like a small version of the home radiator.

Miatacage.com. Magnesium Anode http://www.miatacage.com/magnesium-anode 
 
 Miatacage.com. Magnesium Anode http://www.miatacage.com/magnesium-anode 
 
 
 View on www.miatacage.com http://www.miatacage.com/magnesium-anode 
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Looks like others make them too
Anode Caps & Wires http://www.saskatoonradiator.com/page/482439606 
 
 Anode Caps & Wires http://www.saskatoonradiator.com/page/482439606 Radiator Cap – Sacrificial Anode Radiator Cap This is a patented, scientifically tested radiator cap with a magnesium sacrificial anode attached to the bottom of the radiator cap that hangs down into the coolant.
 
 
 
 View on www.saskatoonradiator.com http://www.saskatoonradiator.com/page/482439606 
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   Scott



 You know, I wonder why there aren't zinc anodes to attach to the insides of radiator caps.
 
 
 - Dave
 
 

 
 
 
 
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Re: Electrolysis

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Could electrolysis be the reason why some members are having head gasket leaks? So a guy buys this beautiful Trophy with super low miles and now the new owner is wondering why the head gasket leaks. The previous owner was changing antifreeze based on miles, not on the time the antifreeze was changed out. So the bike has 5,000 miles and the original antifreeze from 20 years ago. Oops.
 Greg Andrews

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Re: Electrolysis

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Could be...  Some of the pictures looke like there was erosion around the water passages that could cause leaks due to less sealing area for the head gaskets.
I mentioned zinc anodes before, but magnesium was the anode suggested on the page that talked about electrolysis.  Magnesium is commonly used as an anode for aluminum parts in boats stored on the water in fresh water.  Zinc is used for salt water.
- Dave
 
      From: "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 11:13 AM
 Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Electrolysis
   
    Could electrolysis be the reason why some members are having head gasket leaks?So a guy buys this beautiful Trophy with super low miles and now the new owner is wondering why the head gasket leaks. The previous owner was changing antifreeze based on miles, not on the time the antifreeze was changed out. So the bike has 5,000 miles and the original antifreeze from 20 years ago. Oops.
Greg Andrews  #yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981 -- #yiv5537421981ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981ygrp-mkp #yiv5537421981hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981ygrp-mkp #yiv5537421981ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981ygrp-mkp .yiv5537421981ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981ygrp-mkp .yiv5537421981ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981ygrp-mkp .yiv5537421981ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981ygrp-sponsor #yiv5537421981ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981ygrp-sponsor #yiv5537421981ygrp-lc #yiv5537421981hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv5537421981 #yiv5537421981ygrp-sponsor #yiv5537421981ygrp-lc .yiv5537421981ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 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Re: Electrolysis

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
That would be a definite yes.

Samuel
On May 26, 2016 10:15 AM, "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Could electrolysis be the reason why some members are having head gasket
> leaks?
> So a guy buys this beautiful Trophy with super low miles and now the new
> owner is wondering why the head gasket leaks. The previous owner was
> changing antifreeze based on miles, not on the time the antifreeze was
> changed out. So the bike has 5,000 miles and the original antifreeze from
> 20 years ago. Oops.
> Greg Andrews
>
>
>
>
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Re: Electrolysis

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Fellas,

I have to thank you guys for bringing this up. I'm slightly overdue on
flushing out and replacing the coolant. Thanks to you reminding me. I'll
move this to the top of the bucket list. I'd like to install an anode as
well. What about the water jacket drain plug? I wonder if that bolt could
be drilled and a zinc rod installed? Not sure how much clearance exist at
that point. And it could even create unwanted turbulence. But would be an
ideal location otherwise. I wish I had a spare bolt on hand.

Enjoy the ride,
Samuel
On May 26, 2016 1:47 PM, "David Webb [hidden email]
[TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Could be...  Some of the pictures looke like there was erosion around the
> water passages that could cause leaks due to less sealing area for the head
> gaskets.
>
> I mentioned zinc anodes before, but magnesium was the anode suggested on
> the page that talked about electrolysis.  Magnesium is commonly used as an
> anode for aluminum parts in boats stored on the water in fresh water.  Zinc
> is used for salt water.
>
> - Dave
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
> [hidden email]>
> *To:* [hidden email]
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 26, 2016 11:13 AM
> *Subject:* Re: [TriumphTrophy] Electrolysis
>
>
> Could electrolysis be the reason why some members are having head gasket
> leaks?
> So a guy buys this beautiful Trophy with super low miles and now the new
> owner is wondering why the head gasket leaks. The previous owner was
> changing antifreeze based on miles, not on the time the antifreeze was
> changed out. So the bike has 5,000 miles and the original antifreeze from
> 20 years ago. Oops.
> Greg Andrews
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Electrolysis

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Here are some considerations in determining where to locate a magnesium or zinc anode.
The anode needs to be grounded in order to work. The radiator cap is in the middle of two sections of hose.  I'm not sure if it's grounded.
The anode needs to be in a location where it can be accessed and inspected, preferably without draining the coolant.The drain plug is grounded, but it's also one of the water pump mounting bolts.  I wouldn't want it to be sacrificial.



 
      From: "Samuel Crider [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 9:53 PM
 Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Electrolysis
   
    Hi Fellas,I have to thank you guys for bringing this up. I'm slightly overdue on flushing out and replacing the coolant. Thanks to you reminding me. I'll move this to the top of the bucket list. I'd like to install an anode as well. What about the water jacket drain plug? I wonder if that bolt could be drilled and a zinc rod installed? Not sure how much clearance exist at that point. And it could even create unwanted turbulence. But would be an ideal location otherwise. I wish I had a spare bolt on hand.Enjoy the ride,
SamuelOn May 26, 2016 1:47 PM, "David Webb [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

Could be...  Some of the pictures looke like there was erosion around the water passages that could cause leaks due to less sealing area for the head gaskets.
I mentioned zinc anodes before, but magnesium was the anode suggested on the page that talked about electrolysis.  Magnesium is commonly used as an anode for aluminum parts in boats stored on the water in fresh water.  Zinc is used for salt water.
- Dave
 
      From: "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]>
 To: [hidden email]
 Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 11:13 AM
 Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Electrolysis
 
    Could electrolysis be the reason why some members are having head gasket leaks?So a guy buys this beautiful Trophy with super low miles and now the new owner is wondering why the head gasket leaks. The previous owner was changing antifreeze based on miles, not on the time the antifreeze was changed out. So the bike has 5,000 miles and the original antifreeze from 20 years ago. Oops.
Greg Andrews  

   
 


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Re: Electrolysis

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Hi All,  So I bought this 1200 engine for $100. I could see it has a missing bearing for the sprag/alternator.
 I'll replace the missing bearing. Maybe I can bring this engine back to life.
 I started with the head.
 I thought I'd give an update on the 1200 head that was corroded due to electrolysis. I took it to the machine shop to get re-surfaced. Supposed to be a $50 job.
 He said this corrosion spot would need to be ground out and then re-welded. $50
 He called the next day, 5 spots would need grinding and welding, okay.
 Go to pick it up. 9 spots got the grinding and welding.
 $125 for welding, $60 for re-surfacing.
 .008 in, taken off. There are still a few pinholes.
 I filled in the pinholes with JB Weld.
 

 What did I learn?
 Change out the antifreeze. Don't let it sit in there year after year.
 I hope this engine doesn't turn out to be a money pit.
 

 Greg Andrews
 Apple Valley, California
 '96 900 BRG
 106,000 smiles

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