Electrical question

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Electrical question

Stephen Johnson
I am working on a 2001 Trophy 1200 which is difficult to start when cold.
I noticed when pressing the starter button the headlights stay on rather
than cut off like they should to assure enough voltage is available to
produce a strong spark from the coils.  Have any members of this group seen
this issue before and know which relay I should be looking at that might be
causing this ?

Thanks for your help,

Steve

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Re: Electrical question

thdm2001
I have a 2002 1200 trophy and the lights are supposed to be on when the ignition key is in the on or start position. The problem with mine, was that it would crank over but not start unless the battery was fully charged. This was a problem until I switched out the battery for a lithium battery. Haven't had a problem since.
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Re: Electrical question

Samuel Crider
Hi Stephen,

It is one of the cube relays up under the nose. You will likely find them
mounted upside down. Which causes the plastic outer cover to internally
collect water. Causing major corrosion issues with the relays and the
igniter. At least that was the case on my 96 model. So my advice is to hang
them all with the mounting tabs facing up. I strung a horizonal plastic
rope so they could all float. Instead of being physically screwed down.
Which is more friendly on the wiring. You will likely find corrosion issues
in the relay as well as the socket. Usually the relay can be cleaned up and
resoldered. The socket may require replacement. I ended up IDing mine with
a silver permanent marker once I figured out what they go to. That way you
can see it when peering under to nose.

Hope this helps.

Best wishes,
Samuel
96 BBBB PB
NOLA

On Nov 20, 2017 2:32 PM, "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> I have a 2002 1200 trophy and the lights are supposed to be on when the
> ignition key is in the on or start position. The problem with mine, was
> that it would crank over but not start unless the battery was fully
> charged. This was a problem until I switched out the battery for a lithium
> battery. Haven't had a problem since.
>
>
>
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Re: Electrical question

Jack Byers
In reply to this post by Stephen Johnson
Hey Steve! I have a 1995 Trophy 1200, I bought new, and found myself in the very same quandary as you. We have a law that says our head, and tail light, must be visible for a long distance. ( ?), here in Cal. Personally, I think it is a very good idea myself. One small tail-lite in your, hard working sentence, makes you ready for bed, mostly right after work. We try to do our best to stay alive, healthy, and in the wind. I think on the more recent models, there is a "Load Drop Relay", that takes the lights and starter not related. I spent  the better part of a day figuring out what I had to do to get the lights off, and out of the voltage, and amperage draw on startup. I finally came up with a one wire remedy. Then I noticed the wire work, for the 1994 non-US wiring diagram, and it had a "O-N, O-F-F" switch some genius back in the factory, where they still made motorbikes for people with an IQ, higher than 40, and actually tried putting in a "Load-drop-relay" that would shut off the big draw the lites needed. Then they even put a switch in the Rt side switch gear,  that would do it for you! What an idea!!!!! I ordered one from England , from a shop that had impressed a few of our members’ trust, on repairs or ???, I called them up, and they were really a breath of fresh air, in the M/C Bizz!!! I had my new switch-gear in just a few days. There was not anything else for me to mess with, and it worked right, right from the box. I put the new switch gear on the handlebars, flipped on the switch, and it all worked perfectly. There was an unexpected gift, what used to be my "Parking lites", now are my daytime day lites, that our overzealous local centers of government (NON-RIDERS ALL!!!), decided this would make life "Special", and like they were making it all up, with no real benefit for riders in their noggins!  Ever, this is one of the "Helmet companies", slick Bull shit to require that we are required to buy the helmet. I am a retired aircraft electrician, and I wrestled with this for a lot longer than I needed to. The answer was right in the wiring diagram. In the Euro spec bike, I spotted a basic nondescript switch. I had overlooked it a dozen times, thinking I’d simply rewire a lights out switch.  I could shut off my lights to start the engine, on that little tiny battery, and I noticed (Quite by accident!) That the local constabulary couldn’t see me at dark, or even near dark. So I called it my "F-U" switch, and avoided many a little award, by turning off my lights, and getting lost in traffic. Just like on my old H-D Chopper! Then I found that Triumph actually made the switch-work all along. pricey $75.00 + shipped from "Jolly Old", and worth every penny!! Now I can comply with the Cal. Vehicle code, by running my parking lites in the day. I’ve not come out to a weak old battery, and simply turning off all the lights, my bike cranks better than ever. I have had the switch for a few years, and it has paid for itself over, and over again. John Law, hasn’t a clue about it, so my battery is always well charged up when time to ride suddenly arrives! It is the best money I have ever parted with, and it all looks stock as God made it!
 Kindest regards,
 Poppa Jack

> On Nov 19, 2017, at 7:57 PM, Stephen Johnson [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I am working on a 2001 Trophy 1200 which is difficult to start when cold.  I noticed when pressing the starter button the headlights stay on rather than cut off like they should to assure enough voltage is available to produce a strong spark from the coils.  Have any members of this group seen this issue before and know which relay I should be looking at that might be causing this ?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Steve
>
>  <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <x-msg://24/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
>

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Re: Electrical question

Samuel Crider
There does now seem to be issues with sub lithium battery types. The last
gel mat I activated only lasted 13 months. And from day one I suspected it
was a dud. It just didn't seem to have an equivalent current dump compared
to previous batteries.

As for your 2001 it should have the load drop relay system installed as oem
equipment. You need to check the wiring schematic to confirm the wire
colors going to the relay. All it does is energize and disconnect power to
the headlights when the start button is engaged. I believe the trigger wire
from the load drop relay coil attaches to the starter solenoid coil. That
way when you push start it both engages the starter and drops power to the
headlights.

Let us know what you find.

Samuel

On Nov 20, 2017 7:49 PM, "Jack Byers [hidden email]
[TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hey Steve! I have a 1995 Trophy 1200, I bought new, and found myself in
> the very same quandary as you. We have a law that says our head, and tail
> light, must be visible for a long distance. ( ?), here in Cal. Personally,
> I think it is a very good idea myself. One small tail-lite in your, hard
> working sentence, makes you ready for bed, mostly right after work. We try
> to do our best to stay alive, healthy, and in the wind. I think on the more
> recent models, there is a "Load Drop Relay", that takes the lights and
> starter not related. I spent  the better part of a day figuring out what I
> had to do to get the lights off, and out of the voltage, and amperage draw
> on startup. I finally came up with a one wire remedy. Then I noticed the
> wire work, for the 1994 non-US wiring diagram, and it had a "O-N, O-F-F"
> switch some genius back in the factory, where they still made motorbikes
> for people with an IQ, higher than 40, and actually tried putting in a
> "Load-drop-relay" that would shut off the big draw the lites needed. Then
> they even put a switch in the Rt side switch gear,  that would do it for
> you! What an idea!!!!! I ordered one from England , from a shop that had
> impressed a few of our members’ trust, on repairs or ???, I called them up,
> and they were really a breath of fresh air, in the M/C Bizz!!! I had my new
> switch-gear in just a few days. There was not anything else for me to mess
> with, and it worked right, right from the box. I put the new switch gear on
> the handlebars, flipped on the switch, and it all worked perfectly. There
> was an unexpected gift, what used to be my "Parking lites", now are my
> daytime day lites, that our overzealous local centers of government
> (NON-RIDERS ALL!!!), decided this would make life "Special", and like they
> were making it all up, with no real benefit for riders in their noggins!
> Ever, this is one of the "Helmet companies", slick Bull shit to require
> that we are required to buy the helmet. I am a retired aircraft
> electrician, and I wrestled with this for a lot longer than I needed to.
> The answer was right in the wiring diagram. In the Euro spec bike, I
> spotted a basic nondescript switch. I had overlooked it a dozen times,
> thinking I’d simply rewire a lights out switch.  I could shut off my lights
> to start the engine, on that little tiny battery, and I noticed (Quite by
> accident!) That the local constabulary couldn’t see me at dark, or even
> near dark. So I called it my "F-U" switch, and avoided many a little award,
> by turning off my lights, and getting lost in traffic. Just like on my old
> H-D Chopper! Then I found that Triumph actually made the switch-work all
> along. pricey $75.00 + shipped from "Jolly Old", and worth every penny!!
> Now I can comply with the Cal. Vehicle code, by running my parking lites in
> the day. I’ve not come out to a weak old battery, and simply turning off
> all the lights, my bike cranks better than ever. I have had the switch for
> a few years, and it has paid for itself over, and over again. John Law,
> hasn’t a clue about it, so my battery is always well charged up when time
> to ride suddenly arrives! It is the best money I have ever parted with, and
> it all looks stock as God made it!
>  Kindest regards,
>  Poppa Jack
>
> On Nov 19, 2017, at 7:57 PM, Stephen Johnson [hidden email]
> [TriumphTrophy] <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>
> I am working on a 2001 Trophy 1200 which is difficult to start when cold.
> I noticed when pressing the starter button the headlights stay on rather
> than cut off like they should to assure enough voltage is available to
> produce a strong spark from the coils.  Have any members of this group seen
> this issue before and know which relay I should be looking at that might be
> causing this ?
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Steve
>
>
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com
> <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Electrical question

Stephen Johnson
In reply to this post by Stephen Johnson
Thanks for the responses to my question.  For sure the lights should cut
off when pressing the starter button and come back on when
releasing the button.  A friend who has the same year bike does cut on and
off like it should and starts easier.  I will dig under the nose and check
those relays.
Cheers,
Steve

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Re: Electrical question

Stephen Johnson
Looked at the Trophy last weekend and found someone who worked on the bike previously disconnected the cut-out relay and connected the two brown and yellow wires together. Ounce I found it, it was a simple matter of re-connecting the wires back together so power was routed through the cut-out relay.  Works like it should now and starts much easier.  Problem was caused by human error.
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Re: Electrical question

Samuel Crider
Good work! Why someone would bypass it is beyond me. But people do odd
things sometimes.

Samuel
96 BBBB PB
New Orleans

On Dec 8, 2017 1:48 PM, "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Looked at the Trophy last weekend and found someone who worked on the bike
> previously disconnected the cut-out relay and connected the two brown and
> yellow wires together. Ounce I found it, it was a simple matter of
> re-connecting the wires back together so power was routed through the
> cut-out relay.  Works like it should now and starts much easier.  Problem
> was caused by human error.
>
>
>