Cam chain?

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Cam chain?

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi all
 Just returned from an epic tour from UK to Northern Spain and Portugal on my '99 1200. During the trip my odometer crossed 80,000 miles. Total trip was some 2k miles of real biker heaven, especially Northern Spain around Gijon.
 However, despite checking everything I could before setting off, early on the trip I started to notice a distinct rattle that seemed to come from the right hand side of the engine. It may be my imagination, since I became attuned to listening for it, but I think it gradually got worse through the trip.
 The bike, however, run superbly the whole trip and never faltered once. Even fully laden she handled really well through up to 20 miles of severe twisties and up to 3,000 feet.
 Should I be concerned about this rattle? Is it perhaps the timing chain? I fitted a new tensioner spring from Sprint before I left as the old one was shorter than recommended. How do I check the timing chain and how big a job is it to replace it?
 I might add that before going on the trip I had just about decided to replace my Trophy later this year. Mainly because she's so top heavy I've dropped her a couple of times and nearly come to similar several times more. Just about decided to go for a Honda Deauville. However, this experience has convinced me to stay with the Trophy, it was just brilliant!
 Ian
 
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Re: Cam chain?

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Ian, sounds like a good trip....
Do you know if your bike has ever had the cam chain replaced? At 80,000 miles it is possible it is past needing a new chain. I had a new cam chain on my 94 1200 at 55,000. The dealer said it was almost at the point of failure.
David


     On Friday, 31 July 2015, 14:45, "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
   

     Hi allJust returned from an epic tour from UK to Northern Spain and Portugal on my '99 1200. During the trip my odometer crossed 80,000 miles. Total trip was some 2k miles of real biker heaven, especially Northern Spain around Gijon. However, despite checking everything I could before setting off, early on the trip I started to notice a distinct rattle that seemed to come from the right hand side of the engine. It may be my imagination, since I became attuned to listening for it, but I think it gradually got worse through the trip.The bike, however, run superbly the whole trip and never faltered once. Even fully laden she handled really well through up to 20 miles of severe twisties and up to 3,000 feet.Should I be concerned about this rattle? Is it perhaps the timing chain? I fitted a new tensioner spring from Sprint before I left as the old one was shorter than recommended. How do I check the timing chain and how big a job is it to replace it?I might add that before going on the trip I had just about decided to replace my Trophy later this year. Mainly because she's so top heavy I've dropped her a couple of times and nearly come to similar several times more. Just about decided to go for a Honda Deauville. However, this experience has convinced me to stay with the Trophy, it was just brilliant! Ian   #yiv5896322308 #yiv5896322308 -- #yiv5896322308ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5896322308 #yiv5896322308ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5896322308 #yiv5896322308ygrp-mkp #yiv5896322308hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5896322308 #yiv5896322308ygrp-mkp #yiv5896322308ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5896322308 #yiv5896322308ygrp-mkp .yiv5896322308ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5896322308 #yiv5896322308ygrp-mkp .yiv5896322308ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5896322308 #yiv5896322308ygrp-mkp .yiv5896322308ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5896322308 #yiv5896322308ygrp-sponsor #yiv5896322308ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5896322308 #yiv5896322308ygrp-sponsor #yiv5896322308ygrp-lc #yiv5896322308hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv5896322308 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Re: Cam chain?

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Ian,

Sounds like a stellar trip. I agree that it's likely the chain. The job is
not too bad. Also it's a good time to have a peek at the valve adjustments
at the same time. Unfortunately you can only replace one of the two guides
without pulling the head. But in my case they looked identical to the
replacements. With zero noticeable wear. It's also a good idea to replace
the crank sprocket while your at it. Same with the can sprockets it they
show any issues. Again in my case they were still perfect. So I returned
the two sprockets which saved a healthy chunk.

Best,
Samuel
On Jul 31, 2015 8:45 AM, "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <
[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Hi all
>
> Just returned from an epic tour from UK to Northern Spain and Portugal on
> my '99 1200. During the trip my odometer crossed 80,000 miles. Total trip
> was some 2k miles of real biker heaven, especially Northern Spain around
> Gijon.
>
> However, despite checking everything I could before setting off, early on
> the trip I started to notice a distinct rattle that seemed to come from the
> right hand side of the engine. It may be my imagination, since I became
> attuned to listening for it, but I think it gradually got worse through the
> trip.
>
> The bike, however, run superbly the whole trip and never faltered once.
> Even fully laden she handled really well through up to 20 miles of severe
> twisties and up to 3,000 feet.
>
> Should I be concerned about this rattle? Is it perhaps the timing chain? I
> fitted a new tensioner spring from Sprint before I left as the old one was
> shorter than recommended. How do I check the timing chain and how big a job
> is it to replace it?
>
> I might add that before going on the trip I had just about decided to
> replace my Trophy later this year. Mainly because she's so top heavy I've
> dropped her a couple of times and nearly come to similar several times
> more. Just about decided to go for a Honda Deauville. However, this
> experience has convinced me to stay with the Trophy, it was just brilliant!
>
> Ian
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: Cam chain?

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Ian, Changing out the cam chain would be a good choice. I changed mine at 70,000 miles. Changing it improved the performance a little bit. As the chain wears and stretches it will retard the valve timing. The tensioner takes up the slack but it can't bring the timing back to were it should be. The chain is a little longer while running across the top of the cams and its almost a straight shot from the exhaust cam to the cam sprocket on the crank. Since the chain is a little longer the crank has to turn a few degrees more to get the cams were they are supposed to be, hence the cam timing is retarded. You said you replaced the cam chain tensioner. There are about 20 clicks on the tensioner, when it clicks out to 15 clicks it's time to order a new chain. The slider on the intake side curves somewhat and it will wear, but it is easily replaceable. But the slider on the exhaust side is so straight it hardy wears at all. Good thing it doesn't wear because you can't replace it unless you lift the head off.
 A new cam chain for your bike and it will be happy again.
 Greg Andrews
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Re: Cam chain?

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Could be the balancer shafts needing the slack tightened up.

BOAT BBBB 96 Merlot Red. Scotland

From: mailto:[hidden email]
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 3:43 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [TriumphTrophy] Cam chain?

 

Hi Ian,

Sounds like a stellar trip. I agree that it's likely the chain. The job is not too bad. Also it's a good time to have a peek at the valve adjustments at the same time. Unfortunately you can only replace one of the two guides without pulling the head. But in my case they looked identical to the replacements. With zero noticeable wear. It's also a good idea to replace the crank sprocket while your at it. Same with the can sprockets it they show any issues. Again in my case they were still perfect. So I returned the two sprockets which saved a healthy chunk.

Best,
Samuel

On Jul 31, 2015 8:45 AM, "[hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:




  Hi all

  Just returned from an epic tour from UK to Northern Spain and Portugal on my '99 1200. During the trip my odometer crossed 80,000 miles. Total trip was some 2k miles of real biker heaven, especially Northern Spain around Gijon.

  However, despite checking everything I could before setting off, early on the trip I started to notice a distinct rattle that seemed to come from the right hand side of the engine. It may be my imagination, since I became attuned to listening for it, but I think it gradually got worse through the trip.

  The bike, however, run superbly the whole trip and never faltered once. Even fully laden she handled really well through up to 20 miles of severe twisties and up to 3,000 feet.

  Should I be concerned about this rattle? Is it perhaps the timing chain? I fitted a new tensioner spring from Sprint before I left as the old one was shorter than recommended. How do I check the timing chain and how big a job is it to replace it?

  I might add that before going on the trip I had just about decided to replace my Trophy later this year. Mainly because she's so top heavy I've dropped her a couple of times and nearly come to similar several times more. Just about decided to go for a Honda Deauville. However, this experience has convinced me to stay with the Trophy, it was just brilliant!

  Ian






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Re: Cam chain?

Triumph Trophy mailing list
In reply to this post by Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Ian
 My '96 BBBB has done 106,000 Klm and I have just replaced the cam chain and put a new spring in the tensioner. This was after it scared the wits out of me when I started it 2 weeks after a long trip where it went like a dream. I thought for all the world I had done a big end bearing or con rod from the sound coming out of the engine.  The old spring was about 3/4 of an inch shorter than the replacement Sprint spring and the doubled cam chain was about 1/2 in longer.
 It's now relatively quiet for a BBBB. You have to take the cams out to get the chain out but if you take it carefully and go by the manual it isn't too bad. The hardest part is getting the timing marks all lined up when putting it back in. Be patient and don't take short cuts. Check and replace shims while you've got them out.
 Be careful to make sure the pick up sensor doesn't foul the timing wheel lobes when you put it back in and make sure when you put the cam cover back on the spark plug hole seals stay in place. They also cunningly put two "T" marks on the timing disc for 1-4 and 2-3. Don't do what I did and get it all set up for 180 deg out (fortunately found before firing the engine)  
 The cam chain guides and sprocket teeth showed no signs of wear so I wouldn't bother with them.
 Like you, every time I think I am over the Trophy I tune and service it and go for a ride and think, "What am I going to get more for the replacement money?" Answer -  Not a lot.
 JohnM
 

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Re: Cam chain?

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi John, My '96 900 BRG made the same sound years back. The head mechanic at the Triumph dealer told me the replace the alternator drive rubber. Yes it worked. The noise went away. Greg Andrews
 

 John's quote, "I thought for all the world I had done a big end bearing or con rod from the sound coming out of the engine."

 


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Re: Cam chain?

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hi Greg

Yes. I thought the same thing after I had calmed down. It may well have been your posts that made me pull the alternator out and check the rubber but it was all OK and the bolt was good.

[cid:image002.jpg@01D0D2FA.71106060]

As a matter of interest I’ve attached a photo of the old spring (on the left) and the new Sprint spring. It certainly caused some horrible noises.

I also changed the cam chain which wasn’t all that worn but I felt better doing it. Checked the shims while I was at it.

New filter, oil, greased the suspension, adjusted the chain, stringed the wheels and off for a 400 klm ride to the southern highlands of Sydney and I’m back to not wanting to sell it again. Went like a dream.

JohnM

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, 5 August 2015 12:48 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Cam chain?



Hi John, My '96 900 BRG made the same sound years back. The head mechanic at the Triumph dealer told me the replace the alternator drive rubber. Yes it worked. The noise went away.
Greg Andrews

John's quote, "I thought for all the world I had done a big end bearing or con rod from the sound coming out of the engine."



image002.jpg (52K) Download Attachment
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Re: Cam chain? [1 Attachment]

Triumph Trophy mailing list
Hello JohnM
Have you adjusted the balancers (you do have a 4 cylinder..?), I found doing that on mine reduced the 'chatter' quite a bit.
Fairly easy job, too...
David


     On Sunday, 9 August 2015, 14:23, "John Murray [hidden email] [TriumphTrophy]" <[hidden email]> wrote:
   

     Hi Greg    Yes. I thought the same thing after I had calmed down. It may well have been your posts that made me pull the alternator out and check the rubber but it was all OK and the bolt was good.         As a matter of interest I’ve attached a photo of the old spring (on the left) and the new Sprint spring. It certainly caused some horrible noises.     I also changed the cam chain which wasn’t all that worn but I felt better doing it. Checked the shims while I was at it.    New filter, oil, greased the suspension, adjusted the chain, stringed the wheels and off for a 400 klm ride to the southern highlands of Sydney and I’m back to not wanting to sell it again. Went like a dream.     JohnM      From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Wednesday, 5 August 2015 12:48 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [TriumphTrophy] Re: Cam chain?       Hi John, My '96 900 BRG made the same sound years back. The head mechanic at the Triumph dealer told me the replace the alternator drive rubber. Yes it worked. The noise went away. Greg Andrews    John's quote, "I thought for all the world I had done a big end bearing or con rod from the sound coming out of the engine."        #yiv7270815935 #yiv7270815935 -- #yiv7270815935ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv7270815935 #yiv7270815935ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv7270815935 #yiv7270815935ygrp-mkp #yiv7270815935hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv7270815935 #yiv7270815935ygrp-mkp #yiv7270815935ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv7270815935 #yiv7270815935ygrp-mkp .yiv7270815935ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv7270815935 #yiv7270815935ygrp-mkp .yiv7270815935ad p {margin:0;}#yiv7270815935 #yiv7270815935ygrp-mkp .yiv7270815935ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv7270815935 #yiv7270815935ygrp-sponsor #yiv7270815935ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv7270815935 #yiv7270815935ygrp-sponsor #yiv7270815935ygrp-lc #yiv7270815935hd {margin:10px 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